Re: Orthography supporting sound changes?

Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
> Helmut Richter wrote:
> >
> > In article <dpl987$gin$01$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Joachim Pense wrote:
> >
> > > In principle, It appears not to be impossible to me that reversals of lossy
> > > sound changes could happen if the old pronounciation is preserved by
> > > writing. I'm thinking of a reversal of a sound merger, or re-appearance of
> > > a lost sound.
> > >
> > > Are there any reported examples of such sound change reversals having
> > > happened, where it can be demonstrated (or at least is strongly believed by
> > > many) that the orthography was the only preserver of the old situation (so
> > > it was not also preserved by maybe regional or social variants of spoken
> > > language)?
> > >
> > > Or are there strong arguments that this is impossible?
> >
> > Why should it not happen? Yet I consider it improbable. You need four
> > ingredients:
> >
> > 1) a language that has been written for enough time that sound changes
> > could be visible in spelling habits
> >
> > 2) a conservative and irregular orthography where sound changes do not
> > yield spelling changes shortly after
> >
> > 3) an influence of the spelling on the language
> >
> > 4) the absence of conservative dialects
> >
> > For point (2), conservative spelling is not enough. French and German
> > spelling are fairly conservative but also fairly regular. There is no
> > reason that a silent letter is ressurrected in the pronunciation when
> > *all* letters in that position are silent. This reduces the possible
> > languages significantly: for instance English and Danish are left. For
> > point (3), I know a number of German examples, but they are due to the
> > fact that German needed standardisation which contradicts point (4);
> > English would be similar in this respect.
>
> You left out the most relevant point: children would have to learn to
> spell before they learned to talk.

This would appear to rule out actual cases of spelling-pronunciation
altering the shape of words (e.g. "corpse").

Ross Clark
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Orthography supporting sound changes?
    ... It appears not to be impossible to me that reversals of lossy ... > 1) a language that has been written for enough time that sound changes ... > yield spelling changes shortly after ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Orthography supporting sound changes?
    ... It appears not to be impossible to me that reversals of lossy ... > sound changes could happen if the old pronounciation is preserved by ... a language that has been written for enough time that sound changes ... yield spelling changes shortly after ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Orthography supporting sound changes?
    ... >> 1) a language that has been written for enough time that sound changes ... >> yield spelling changes shortly after ... use a spelling pronunciation. ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Orthography supporting sound changes?
    ... >> many) that the orthography was the only preserver of the old situation (so ... I suspected a dogmatic opinion to exist that written language is dependent ... > 1) a language that has been written for enough time that sound changes ... > yield spelling changes shortly after ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Orthography supporting sound changes?
    ... > 1) a language that has been written for enough time that sound changes ... > yield spelling changes shortly after ... I mean the re-establishing of the final -r in French initiatives. ...
    (sci.lang)
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