Re: Your first "linguistic" memory


"Seán O'Leathlóbhair" <jwlawler@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1136906248.338638.92670@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>Neeraj Mathur wrote:
>> "Seán O'Leathlóbhair" <jwlawler@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:1136896935.985397.28740@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> >The problem was that they were all familiar with the spelling of the
>> >words involved. An "r" was written so they believed that they were
>> >saying it. They pointed out that omitting the "r" would usually
>> >changed the sound e.g. "hard" and "had" were not the same.
>>
>> But that's not really true, since 'hard' and 'had' have different vowels
>> in
>> rhotic dialects as well.
>>
>> Neeraj Mathur
>
>I didn't say that it was true, just that they cited it as evidence that
>they were saying the "r".

But they're not saying the 'r' (taking that to mean, 'realising the <r> as a
change in vowel quality'), the two words simply have different vowels, which
the poverty of vowels in the English alphabet masks. In other words, taking
the 'r' out of 'hard' only yields 'had' in the orthographic sense.

>In my dialect, omitting an "r" will almost
>always affect the pronunciation but usually because the vowel quality
>is affected.

Can you give me an example? In almost all of the examples I have heard of
non-rhotic English, one of two effects can be seen:
1) In the case where the older form of the language (as preserved in
American English) had a Vr sequence, the r drops out with compensatory
lengthening of the vowel. Examples: ford, bard, fair, etc.
2) In the case where the r was vocalic and functioned as the syllabic
nucleus or the second half of a diphthong in the older form of the language,
it is replaced by a centralised vowel (with no effect on the first half of
the diphthong) Many of the diphthong cases are monophthongs for some people,
and thus fall under 1 above. Examples of the single vowel: bird, fur,
vapour, other. Examples of the diphthong: poor, who're (from 'who are'),
beard, etc.

In no case, that I can think of at least, is the quality of the vowel
preceding affected in any way.

Neeraj Mathur


.

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