Re: Your first "linguistic" memory

Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:23:49 GMT: "Peter T. Daniels"
<grammatim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>: in sci.lang:

>> >You say there are minimal pairs. Why is there any question at all?
>> The minimal pairs are unconvincing.

>How can a minimal pair be "unconvincing"?

Seldom-used loans, strange combinations of words versus single words,
(Dutch "ga, os!" (go, oxen!) vs. "chaos") word pairs that are
different for some, but not for others, or that hardly anybody ever
uses. Names vs. real word, e.g. Dutch "val" vs. the brand name of a
particular gun: FAL. Do they count?

I don't have time to go into enough detail to explain it all.
I have this page http://rudhar.com/lingtics/szfvgch.htm about it, but
it is in Dutch. See also http://rudhar.com/fonetics/fvw.htm .

>> >For your third example, are you claiming that there is no difference
>> >between '60' and '16'? How do you do business?
>>
>> Haha. Do you have a serious reply too?
>
>You claimed that there is no phonemic difference between the two words.
>How is that not a serious question?

<zestien> = [zEstin]
<zestig> = [sest@X], because it was once t'zestig.
Clearer now?

>If you've never heard of Chomsky & Halle, *The Sound Pattern of English*
>(1968), you _really_ need to learn some linguistics.

Yes. Thanks for the information.

>Its analysis is
>based in Halle's *The Sound Pattern of Russian* (1959), which was the
>founding document of generative phonology and remains unconvincing to
>this day.

>> >If you hunt around, you may well find a (pre-Hallean, of course)
>> >analysis of Portuguese by Fred Agard. (He liked to give class examples
>> >from Papiamento.)
>>
>> Different languages.
>
>Sigh. He came to the study of Papiamento (do you even know what that
>is?)

Hahaha. Of course I do. It's spoken on islands that belong to the same
kingdom as the Netherlands itself, remember? Every common libabry has
books about it here.

>_because_ he was a scholar of Portuguese. He also wrote a compact
>introduction to Romance linguistics, so you might find a descriptivist
>account of Portuguese there.

Interesting.

--
Ruud Harmsen - http://rudhar.com

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Your first "linguistic" memory
    ... > The minimal pairs are unconvincing. ... How can a minimal pair be "unconvincing"? ... _because_ he was a scholar of Portuguese. ... to follow his compact, rigorous style. ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Your first "linguistic" memory
    ... the whole discussion started about whether minimal pairs can be ... Am I right in detecting a tone that expresses disagreement ... It is not "unconvincing"; it doesn't exist. ... >>English has two interdental fricatives, ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Your first "linguistic" memory
    ... >>> The minimal pairs are unconvincing. ... The minimal pair is thy/thigh, ... Prev by Date: ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Your first "linguistic" memory
    ... >> The minimal pairs are unconvincing. ... "English"? ... Prev by Date: ...
    (sci.lang)