Re: Your first "linguistic" memory

Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>
> >> >If you know that "val" (whatever that is) \
> >> >and FAL are different words,
> >>
> >> They are different all right, but is FAL really a Dutch word? Nobody
> >> except conscripts (which we no longer have) you were then trained in
> >> using that gun ever use it. I think this type of gun is no longer in
> >> use now. So millions of native speakers have no idea what it is, and
> >> don't want to know. It is not in the Van Dale dictionary. So is it a
> >> Dutch word? I really don't know.
>
> Fri, 13 Jan 2006 15:29:24 GMT: "Peter T. Daniels"
> <grammatim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>: in sci.lang:
> >So the Dutch manufacturers invented a trademark that couldn't be
> >pronounced in Dutch?
>
> Did I ever say, write or suggest that????????????

You said "Is FAL really a Dutch word?", which certainly suggests you
think it isn't.

> >That strikes me as highly unlikely. And most
> >Americans know what "M-16," "AK-47," and "Uzi" mean even if we haven't
> >the slightest idea what they look like or how to tell them apart. (Not
> >to mention "Remington," "Smith and Wesson," "Colt," and many others.)

One I was trying to think of was "Beretta," so as to be sure to include
an imported one. (Also "Luger.")

> Not quite the same thing, seeing that here in NL, civilians may only
> carry guns with special permits.

What makes you think that's not so in the US?

> >> Not the point. The point is: how can such a distinction survive in a
> >> language in which /s/ and /z/ may arguably not even be different
> >> phonemes? They're not allophones either, because the difference can
> >> only be explained by historic developments, not by phonetic context.
> >
> >I have no idea what you're talking about.
>
> And I have no idea why not. I thought I was rather clear about it.

That's the problem.

> >And don't tell me that you understand "phoneme" if you can write a
> >passage like that!
>
> Phonemes are what make words sound different,

Yes.

> and makes different
> meanings recognizable.

I don't know what that means.

> Other differences can exist, they are
> allophonic, they follow from the vicinity of other phonemes
> (assimilation), or from position (initial, medial, final etc.)

I don't know what that means.

> What do I misunderstand about "phoneme" so far?

I can't tell.

> Then a language has differences between words, that are not phonemic
> and not allophonic, but they are just there for no apparent reason.
> And they are passed on to new generations, although the difference
> does not distinguish meaning in any way. Isn't that strange? Does it
> mean I misunderstand phonemes when I find that remarkable?

I have no idea what you're talking about in this entire paragraph.

> Please explain.
>
> >> Het Koninkrijk der Nederlanden, with the "Rijksdelen" Nederland, Aruba
> >> and the Nederlandse Antillen. The (tiny) islands are Aruba, Bonaire,
> >> Curaçau, St.Eustacius, (half of) St. Maarten, and Saba.
> >>
> >> Cf. Canada and Australia, which are not Great Britain, but are or were
> >> under the same Queen.
> >
> >So the Caribbean islands have the same status as the mainland country
> >itself?
>
> Did I say that?

You said that the Caribbean islands are not Netherlands possessions,
i.e. in the kingdom, but that the Rijksdelen; Aruba; and the smaller
islands are the three (coequal?) components of the Koninkrijk.

> >The way Martinique, Guadeloupe, and Réunion are supposedly
> >départements equivalent in status to any département in France itself?
> >No passports, no visas, no immigration restrictions,
>
> Yes.
>
> >representation in
> >Parliament superior to that of any of the divisions within the
> >Rijksdelen?
>
> No.

Then your division of Koninkrijk into Rijksdelen; Aruba; and Antillen
was incorrect.
--
Peter T. Daniels grammatim@xxxxxxx
.

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