Re: Time in various languages...


Brian M. Scott <b.scott@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1vih0j055p861$.m5rosnoxafjt.dlg@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 02:57:33 -0000, Neeraj Mathur
> <neemathur@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
> <news:dqcdmp$coh$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> in sci.lang:
>
> > "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> > news:1vkfa80lndzhv$.ag2yd6b0dak4$.dlg@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> >> On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 02:35:42 -0000, Neeraj Mathur
> >> <neemathur@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
> >> <news:dqccdq$cct$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> in sci.lang:
>
> >>> "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >>> news:1nyg56iccd80l$.1kvafxls58u4q.dlg@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> >>>> On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 13:32:00 +0000, Thomas Widmann
> >>>> <twid@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
> >>>> <news:m3fynr2awf.fsf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> in sci.lang:
>
> >>>>> Does it mean 9:30 in any variety of English?
>
> >>>> I don't believe so. Unfortunately. 'Halb zehn' = 9:30
> >>>> makes sense; the English usage is thoroughly unreasonable.
>
> >>> Not at all! When half of the ten o'clock hour has gone
> >>> past, it is half ten - 10.30.
>
> >> That makes no sense to me, because I don't consider 'the ten
> >> o'clock hour' a natural entity.
>
> > You're thinking of 10:00 as the end of the tenth hour, but
> > this is highly unnatural -
>
> Not to me! Nor is it necessary to think this way to get
> 9:30 out of 'half 10': 'half 10' immediately suggests 'half
> of 10', which is readily understood in this context as
> elliptical for 'half of the way to 10 (from the previous
> whole hour)'.
>
> [...]
>
> > That's why 'half 10' meaning 'halfway through all those
> > times that start with 10' is rather the opposite of
> > 'thoroughly unreasonable'.
>
> Not to me! Seriously, 'half of the way to 10' has *always*
> seemed to me the obvious interpretation of 'half 10', and I
> really do find the English usage unnatural.
>
> Brian

I believe a majority of European languages would agree
with you finding the English usage strange and unnatural.
In medieval times when people started talking about time
in terms of hours and their portions, they usually thought
in terms of portions of the x-th hour i.e. an hour the clock
was in the process of completing.

In some Eu languages you have equivalents of
quarter on ten = quarter of the tenth = 9:15
half tenth = half of the tenth = 9:30
three quarters on ten = three quarters of the tenth = 9:45
after five minutes quarter on ten = 9:10

Sometimes the various declensions have gone from the
contemporary speech but older texts show clearly what
was meant.

pjk



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