Re: what is etymology? (linguistics and biology)


"Paul J Kriha" <paul.nospam.kriha@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote ...
>
> John Atkinson <johnacko@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote...
>>
>> "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote...
>>
>> > Heidi Graw wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >"Franz Gnaedinger" <frgn@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote...
>>
>> >> > Mongoloids are usually very nice people, delightful, easily
>> >> > delighted and pleased, "happy when they get a dish with
>> >> > a gold rim" my mother explained to me when I was a boy,
>> >> > agreeable, good mediators, and yet utter fools when it
>> >> > comes to our school system.
>> >>
>> >> Foolish, but wise. ;-)
>> >>
>> >> Franz, have you ever actually talked with someone who has Down's
>> >> Syndrome?
>> >>
>> >> I have through my association with Special Olympics. They constantly
>> >> surprise me with their keen observations. More than a few of these
>> >> people
>> >> think that "normal" people are foolish and that they do all too many
>> >> dumb
>> >> things. I can't help but agree with them. Some of the dumbest people
>> >> I've
>> >> known in my life were those with exceptionally high IQ's! ;-)
>> >
>> > So maybe you'll reconsider taking advice from someone who calls them
>> > "Mongoloids"?
>> >
>> > And it's Down Syndrome
>>
>> It's either in English. However in Google "Down" wins 4 to 1 over
>> "Down's".
>>
>> Most other languages prefer "Down's". Portuguese "sindrome de Down",
>> French
>> "syndrome de Down", Czech "Downova syndromu", Danish and Swedish "Downs
>> syndrom", Finnish "Downin oirevyheyma"", Icelandic "Downs-helkenni",
>> Italian
>> "sindrome di Down", Dutch "Down's syndroom", Slovakian "Downovho
>> syndro'mu"
>
> Just some minor comments to the above list:
>
> Some of the entries (specifically Czech and Slovak , maybe
> others?) are not nominatives. Listing words in miscellaneous
> declensions is risky, it may trick people into making wrong
> conclusions. Here, the Czech form "-ova -u" and Slovak "-ovho -u"
> indicate genitive noun.

Right, I should have been more careful about that! I got all that from a
big list of the various national societies for the condition -- e.g.,
"Spolecnost Downova syndromu" for Czech.

I don't know any Czech, but I do know some Russian, and if I'd bothered to
think about it I would have realised that that "-u" was unlikely to be a
nominative. In Russian it would have to be dative, which doesn't make much
sense. But now, checking a Czech textbook, I see that inanimate masculines
have the same ending "-u" for genitive as well as dative, as you say.

As for the other languages, it's definitely "Down's" in the Romance and
Germanic languages I mentioned (except German and PR Spanish). In
Icelandic, I got it from "um Downs-helkenni", "with Down's syndrome", and
"um" governs the accusative -- in the nominative it would be "-kennir", I
think -- but Brian will no doubt sort me out there! But "Downs" is genitive
of course.

The Finnish and Turkish I gave undoubtedly have the translation of
"syndrome" in a non-nominitive case too.

> The Cz noun-in-nominative, "Downúv syndrom" or "Syndrom Downa"
> usually corresponds to English "Down syndrom".
> BTW, both forms, adj+noun and noun+adj (adjective in genitive,
> noun in nominative) are equally valid, the latter being slightly
> formal/archaic.
>
> However, the English "Down's syndrom" will end up translated
> into Czech in exactly the same way. The possesive "Down's"
> ends up translated as the same Cz genitive form of adjective.
> Usually, it is clear from the context, but if it were necessary
> to stress "Down's" as opposed to "Down", the sentence
> would be recast with some extra word(s) to make it explicit.

As you say, "Downuv" is an adjective, so could equally well translate
English "Down" or "Down's", but "Downa", being genitive of the noun, would
have to be literally "Down's", wouldn't it?

John.
>
> (Note: "ú" is a long "u", printed as "u" with a little circle above it.)
>
>> OTOH, German has "Down-Syndrom" and Turkish "Down sendromu" (I think)
>>
>> Spanish has "sindrome de Down" in Spain and Latin America, but "sindrome
>> Down" in Puerto Rico (due to US influence?).
>>


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