Re: Some European river names


Franz Gnaedinger wrote:
James Dalgleish wrote:
Why are there least two rivers in the UK called the Don, as well as
another entering the Black Sea along with the Danube, not to mention
the Dnieper and Dniester? If the former names are of Celtic origin and
the latter Iranian (the Danube could be either, I suppose), is there
any special connection between the two families beyond belonging to
Indo-European? I never heard there was. Is there a Proto-Indo-European
word from which these names are all derived such as the ancestor of
Sanskrit udan and Slavic *voda? Is the stress on the second syllable in
both cases, and if so, should they not be reconstructed to something
like *dan rather than *wod? Could the former also be the origin of
Gaelic tonn, Welsh ton, meaning a wave? Or is the origin of these river
names pre-Indo-European? I heard river names were among the oldest
place names.


If you allow me a speculation, I'd relate Don as river name
to a Magdalenian word I found on the evening of past Sunday,
namely TON for sound, voice, also for to say, make a sound,
give a lesson. Zeus was the thunder god of the ancient Greeks,
he made his thundering voice resound the world, and so he
was the Lord, Spanish Don. The Celtic thunder god was Tanaris,
while Don was the Celtic word for world: the one who makes the
world resound with his voice. Zeus had two brothers, Poseidon,
originally the god of rivers, more specifically of the rivers in the
wide Eurasian steppes, only later did he become the god of the
seas, and Pluton, the god of the underworld Hades, guarded by
the howling dog Cerberos who made the caverns of the Hades
resound ... Their names were both written with omega, long o,
Poseidooon, Plutooon, giving their names more sound. The
name of Poseidon is not yet understood, but I could imagine
that the ending -don had the above meaning. Also Poseidon
made the world resound, namely as the Earth Shaker, the one
who made cities come tumbling down, and the one who rose
waves and ruled the thundering seas. From here may come ton
and tonn for wave, and the inversion onda for wave. Furthermore
I might mention Plato, in Greek Platon, also with Omega, as
another one who made his voice being heard. The rivers Dnepr
and Dnester as bearers of possible Don-names flow across the
Ukrainian plains and mouth into the Black Sea which is known
for heavy gales. Don and Danube are majestic rivers, Don is no
name for a small river ending in a lake; a river of all rivers, a Don,
a lord among rivers if you like.

In case you have a question you better ask me via e-mail.
otherwise you will immediately get killrated; we have no longer
open discussions in the scientific groups, some people are now
acting from the shadows.

Regards Franz Gnaedinger www.seshat.ch

Greetings,
I hope this is not too far off the topic but I am interested in
understanding the process of language acquisition (development) from
monosyllabic representative sounds, such as onomatopoeia <e.g.
ruff-ruff and moo> to the use of grammatical decisions of word order.
I have read that in the Aurignacian culture language was "artificial"
-- perhaps not as sophisticated as ours but on its way. This means
35,000 years ago the advancement of language was as good as the
advancement of artistic know-how .... which was no less advanced then
Picasso (according to his own assessment). Is there a theory that make
sense, that explains the way in which artificial language evolves and
the time it takes from simple grunts of need to words that express
conceptual principles?

Also .. please forgive my lack of knowledge... but did rhinos really
live in Southwest France 35,000 years ago or did the artists of Chauvet
Cave remember them from their nomadic travels?

Is there any evidence that these folks traveled from areas as far as
the great expanse south of the Urals ... perhaps as far as Kazakhstan?

I am fascinated by the red dots found in the Chauvet cave ... the red
ochre palm prints. Could these be systems for counting? The artists
did not live in the cave and they built fires to produce the charcoal
with which they drew ... they were artisans ... perhaps there was a
practical purpose to the red dots ... or perhaps the lack of oxygen in
the caves caused temporary physiological phenomena that in some way
relates to the red dots. I know from having been, on a few occasions,
lightheaded that dots blurred my vision. I am not negating the
possible use of "magic mushrooms" by these early home sapiens, as some
finds have suggested, but I would like to exhaust the possibilities of
the natural effects of the environment first ... before I look at the
art as wholly shamanistic.

I would greatly appreciate any kindly and pertinent guidance you might
offer.
Holly

.

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