Re: where do so many tenses come from?


Who uses "shall" in that way in the 21st century?

I do, mostly in writing. And I shall continue to do so.

I believe the sentence above to be correct. The rest of
that post was mostly just me being a wise guy. However:

In October, I shall be able to say that I had done it.

So everyone is saying that I ought to have said "In October, I shall be able to say that I _have_ done it". Okay, I suppose. That doesn't seem
to have the same sense, though. Consider "In October, I shall be able to say that I had done it before my trip to Pittsburgh, which is currently planned for August".

You really shouldn't try to use the more elaborate compound tenses
without a full grasp of how the prescriptivists wanted them to be used
early in the last century.

I was given a solidly prescriptivist education back in the 50's
and 60's, and I still believe in the concept of "correct English".
I understand the difference between "shall" and "will". I remember
that I'm supposed to say "hwat" and "hwich". And I continue to say
"Had I done it..." when all around me are saying "If I woulda done
it..." I say "for Brian and me", not "for Brian and I". I'm also strongly influenced by years of Latin, which of course is rather rigorous. So I'm quite open to correction, because I believe in the
possibilty of being wrong.

The past perfect is used (as it Latin name, plusquamperfectum, makes
clearer) to refer to past acts within a narrative set in the past:

"When I registered for English 401, I had already taken the
prerequisite, English 302."

Yes, I read Latin and understand the use of the pluperfect. In
fact, I guess I'm disagreeing about what in Latin would be called
the sequence of tenses. I'm referring to a future reference to
an action that is in the (nearer) future now, but will have been completed in what is now the future but in the frame of the reference
will have been the recent past.

I shall be able to say "I have done it".
I shall be able to say that I had done it.

Hmmm, that still sounds right to me. Are you saying that the
difference between direct and indirect discourse doesn't matter?

Steve M.

(And a note to Brian: I will actually not be at Pennsic this
year. Second miss in 29 years. Sigh.)

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Pro-gunners in complete tailspin over factually correct claim
    ... This tradition is most certainly not in the US where suicide is more ...     And how did I 'go wrong' when I corrected Brian when he said otherwise? ... Brian said "otherwise"? ... Brian was saying "2009 is NOT yet over; therefore the WHO data cannot be ...
    (talk.politics.guns)
  • Re: Off-Topic: English
    ... >> You can get into English quite easily, but it's a hideous struggle to ... >> complexity of Latin. ... CENTURION: (Catching Brian writing graffiti on the palace wall) What's ...
    (alt.fan.harry-potter)
  • Re: Hardcore Hospitality......
    ... Seems to me that a lot of the posts to this news group take that form ... saying something I didn't feel like saying, I'd say buh-bye and be out ... I'm still wondering if you actually read what happened according to Brian. ...
    (rec.motorcycles)
  • Re: Humble Contribution
    ... "Paul Rubin" wrote in message ... > Brian, do you know how md5 works? ... saying is possible. ... > modifying an md5 implementation to set the magic constants from your ...
    (sci.crypt)
  • Re: SPICE CUP 2009
    ... Hey did you see a movie called ?? ... movie but it was about Brian Jones and the guy who was supposed to work ... on his house and i guess try and keep him off drugs ..He started doing ... that is what ended up happing saying he drowned because of drugs. ...
    (rec.games.chess.misc)