Re: "par coeur" origin


TOF <fran_beta@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Paul J Kriha wrote:
TOF <fran_beta@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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retrosorter wrote:
TOF wrote:
Peter T. Daniels wrote:
retrosorter wrote:


Once we're on the "by heart" subject, why is it that some people say
"off by heart?" Is it merely idiomatic with no logical explanation?

"Now that" we're on the subject

It's not "off by heart," it's "read it off" or "know it off."

Say what?
"I know my lines *by heart*; or *off by heart*"
TOF

The joining of the word "'off" with "by" does seem a tad unusual and I
can't think offhand of another example in English where this occurs.
Does it in essence represent a joining if the idiomatic verb ""know
off' with ''by heart'?

I doubt it. Where I come from (Australia) I've not heard someone split
"off" from "by" (although the "off" is occasionally omitted.)

Oh really?
"By now, you must be able to recite it off, you bloody drongo, by heart."

That's cheating. A parenthetical aside can go most anywhere, though I
stand by my claim. Why not put the "you bloody drongo" at the end or
after "By now,"?

Cheating or not cheating, you said you never heard it split.
If you like the aside at the end of a sentence, consider this:
"By now, you must be able to recite it off, pretty quickly.
(pause) By heart!"
I am sure you must have heard "off" and "by" split into
separate sentences?
pjk

Another expression meaning the same thing is "down pat" used with "to
have".

The _same_ thing as what? By heart??
pjk

Yes.

There is a semantical overlap but it's not _the same thing_.
I don't think it means "by heart" in the following sentence:
"She's got that Indian wrestlin' down pat, an' she's built for it."
:-)

pjk


TOF


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