Re: Cologne, Germany


Ruud Harmsen wrote:
11 May 2006 18:07:43 -0700: "mb" <azythos2@xxxxxxxxxxx>: in sci.lang:

/kil v&n k@l/ /spaytn dayvl/ (the etymology of the latter, BTW, is
heavily disputed)

Can't see why it should be disputed: Spijtige duivel, "the wretched /
unlucky devil" is an occasional place name in Flanders and the Low
Countries (and the name of a venerable inn in Ukkel / Brussels, open
since 1500).

Then I suggest you consult some histories of New York City.
Not a specialist / would be nice to have some of the 1L Dutch/Flemish
come in the discussion.

"Spuiten duivel" means nothing in Dutch, it isn't grammatical, unless
the infinitive 'spuiten' is interpret as an imperative, but then the
phrase still doesn't make sense.

Of course it doesn't. What would make sense is that the Spuyten Duyvil
of New York is a modification, via English mouth and pen, of a place
name, Spijtige Duivel, that already had an oldish tradition in
different places in the Low Countries.

And explain why you think "spijtige" and "spuyten" are the same word?

Simple: the set expression has been used for place / tavern naming for
a very long time. Some analogs of it are also used in neighboring areas
too ("Au diable boiteux"). The place in NY has been Dutch. Orthography
for "ij / ui" seems to have been fairly loose until relatively
recently.

No way. You are certainly mistaken here. They have been distinct 100s
if not thousands of years. Perhaps you confuse ei/ij/y/ey/eij/ye etc
etc. which _could_ be orthographic variants of each other?
But when u comes into it, it isn't the same thing anymore.

Thanks for that precision. However, the diphthong that the present
spelling of Spuyten Duyvil represents is that of the Engl. long i.


Spuiten for squirting seems a little strange, but if it is
the origin it should also be made to explain the Old Country place
names too. When there is a compelling reason for not accepting the
simple, straightforward explanation I'll start thinking otherwise.

But then please explain the grammar of "spuiten devil". What is the
meaning of the construction infinitive+noun?

None that I see. That was one of the explanations found in the
discussion of the place name by New Yorkers on their history. Another
one was that the "spuiten" was not about squirting but a
maelstrom/whirlpool.

.

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