Re: Settling an Argument - Assembly *IS* a Language, Right?

Neeraj Mathur wrote:

<hanumizzle@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1148659060.174748.190100@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Neeraj Mathur wrote:

This is true only in a rather deliberately specious sense. Pali may be
learned only in adulthood or adolescence *today*, but two thousand years
ago
(more or less) it was learned by children as their normal first
language -
that is, it was transmitted principally as an L1.

Who used it as an L1 language?

Pali is a literary register of a Middle Indo-Aryan language used by the
communities of northern India during the last few centuries before Christ.
(There is some dispute as to exactly which locality its vernacular belonged
to.)

I had no idea there was ever a vernacular form of Pali, or a vernacular
related to Pali, although the similarities to Sanskrit were immediately
obvious. I was under the impression that it was principally, if not
exclusively, a liturgical language. Oh, well...

(I suggested earlier that you look up creolization - did
you?)

I am familiar with pidgins and creoles.

Great; I specified 'creolization', which is the process by which pidgins
become creoles. If you know a lot about this process, about the sorts of
changes which pidgins undergo as they become creoles and what the results
produce, then you should have a clear idea of how L1-transmitted languages
differ from constructed languages and programming languages.

I will investigate it further...I remember most of it when I was
researching whether or not English is a creole. (It wasn't, and I was
consequently right. :D)

As has been noted in another thread this morning, I have Indian
ethnicity;
for what it's worth, both Hanuman and Chinese popped into my head when I
saw
it (not anatomy), but the overall feeling was one of perplexity rather
than
humour. I'm not sure in what way modifying 'Hanuman' to 'Hanumizzle' is
funny, but I'm frankly not that bothered by what you choose to call
yourself.

This explains:

[2006-05-08 18:43:12] <BigBuddha> HEEEYYY!
[2006-05-08 18:43:12] BigBuddha is n=avnish@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Avnish
[2006-05-08 18:43:12] BigBuddha on ##linux
[2006-05-08 18:43:12] BigBuddha using irc.freenode.net
http://freenode.net/
[2006-05-08 18:43:15] <BigBuddha> DESI PARTY YAAR
[2006-05-08 18:43:24] <hanumizzle> what state are u from?
[2006-05-08 18:43:30] <hanumizzle> ethnicity-wise
[2006-05-08 18:43:33] <BigBuddha> You know the term "Desi" huh? I'm
impressed.
[2006-05-08 18:43:53] <hanumizzle> hang on a min...
[2006-05-08 18:43:54] <BigBuddha> In the states I'm in Ohio but I don't
think I understand what you are asking.
[2006-05-08 18:44:28] <hanumizzle> like marathi, tamil, etc
[2006-05-08 18:44:53] <BigBuddha> Well, I come from Bombay and Delhi.
I speak Hindi fluently.
[2006-05-08 18:45:31] <hanumizzle> look at this:
http://www.vectorlinux.com/forum1/index.php?topic=9852.0
[2006-05-08 18:46:07] <hanumizzle> at the bottom
[2006-05-08 18:47:01] <BigBuddha> Ohhh
[2006-05-08 18:47:06] <BigBuddha> NOW I GET HANUMIZZLE
[2006-05-08 18:47:07] <BigBuddha> NICE
[2006-05-08 18:47:30] <BigBuddha> pass for a desi eh?
[2006-05-08 18:47:31] <BigBuddha> nice nice
[2006-05-08 18:47:36] <hanumizzle> everyone is slow with that, for
whatever reason
[2006-05-08 18:47:56] <BigBuddha> yea well most people dont really
merge hanuman with izzle
[2006-05-08 18:48:02] <BigBuddha> you are like a black fob
[2006-05-08 18:48:04] <BigBuddha> i love em
[2006-05-08 18:48:05] <BigBuddha> hahahah

One of the numerous reasons I like desis is because talking with them
usually means effusive praise.

Yes, many Indians are easily impressed by people who are interested in them
and their culture. Are you studying or interested in Indian literature? What
aspects?

Yes, if not formally, I am studying that literature and yonder
(history, language, etc, etc.). This interest began several years ago,
and one can never completely trace the origins of every major change of
interests in one's life. However, I could certainly attribute this to
my penchant for escapism (the stories and things always reminded me of
D&D), Indian friends, and the sheer practical value of knowing these
things as a prospective Comp Sci major.

For instance, I recently toured Penn State University's main campus and
struck up a half-hour long conversation with a Tamil student named
Balaji at the CSE building. An Assamese peer of his (whose name I
forget) stepped out of the elevator at that time, and Balaji drew his
attention to me, saying I knew a lot about Indian languages (I really
don't...yet :D). I don't even go there yet, and I already fit it in
with that clique. Awesome!

In another occasion, I was talking about my nick at Six Flags to a ride
operator who was Thai. (They had a ton of them there; don't know why.)
He seemed so engrossed in my knowledge of the Ramakien that the line
got held up for a moment. He holla'd at me over the balcony.

(I should mention if you weren't aware that there are many people who don't
like 'desi' - to my family, for instance, it usually means 'rude,
uncultured, uneducated, illiterate' or at least something like 'fob'; they
would most often be insulted to be called 'desi' by an Indian.

I will take your word for this, but comparing the word 'desi' to
'***' is perhaps excessive. For one, there would (probably) be a
public outcry if MTV were to aim a music channel called 'MTV ***' at
their black demo, as opposed to 'MTV Desi'. One also sees the term
plastered all over the Sepia Mutiny blog (one of the few blogs worth
reading).

Most South Asians I know either have a neutral opinion of the word
'desi', simply using it as a convenient label, or actually pride
themselves on it (as in 'DESI PARTY YAAR'). I was, in fact, first
introduced to the word 'desi' by one of my teachers, who is primarily
Marathi in background; she mentioned that she used it jokingly when her
husband had difficulty with English. ("Oh, you're being such a desi!")
I have no more problems with using the term than I would with someone
calling me a videsi, farang(i), parang, or the whole litany of other
words derived from 'Frank'. In the right context, these words can
assume a very favorable, even prestigious association, depending on how
much work one does.

Fortunately, good intentions usually count for something.

Alright, I guess what I was missing was -izzle as a suffix. Wikipedia has
set me straight.

Wikipedia is a lord.

By the way, if you still use that signature in your forums (which in the
thread you linked to you claimed as Hindi - it's not, it's Sanskrit, but you
probably knew that),

Where did I claim it was Hindi? That I would make such a claim puzzles
me, because all the slokas I know, including that one, are Sanskrit.
I'm just beginning to study Hindi, but I don't remember seeing anything
about 'guru' turning to 'gurave' in the dative case. (meaning: "To this
honorable teacher, great praise", yes?)

If I suggested it was Hindi, I was probably *very* tired.

you might want to make this small correction: add a
'virama' mark to the end of 'sakshat'. There shouldn't be any -a at the end
of it. (Even better, of course, would be if you did them with conjuncts;
it's very unusual for the words to be separated the way you have them, but
if your fonts can't do it, fair enough.)

That's how I saw it written (in Devanagari)...it looked weird to me at
first, too, but it's what I know. For the record, I used the ACZoom
online renderer for ITRANS input, which produced a GIF that will
display properly in any graphical browser; it seems Firefox will give
you nothing but headaches composing Devanagari unless you use a patched
version found here: http://www.blacksapphire.com/firefox-rtl

Oh, and 'Vishnu' probably wants his
case ending as well.

....which is? (I don't mean to sound brusque; I don't really know
Sanskrit except for some passages committed to rote memory.)

Please forgive me, Vishnu. :D

P.S. - Neeraj means lotus, yes? The wife of a good friend of mine is
named Neeraj, and I think that's what he mentioned to me.

.

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