Re: Vinca script, cross bar angle - Ki Ri Ke

grapheus@xxxxxxx wrote:

Peter T. Daniels wrote:
grapheus@xxxxxxx wrote:

Peter T. Daniels wrote:
Franz Gnaedinger wrote:

Peter T. Daniels wrote:

Why don't you give me a page reference? Is it the same page(s) I cite in
*The World's Writing Systems*, sec. 2?

I have / had three books by Marija Gimbutas:

Die Sprache der Goettin
Die Zivilisation der Goettin
The Goddesses and Gods of Old Europe

I would have preferred the English versions of the two
first books, alas, there were only German ones available,
beautiful and large volumes, though. I helped a friend of
mine with her diploma, and when she got it (well deserved)
I gave her the first book for a present, so I can't tell you the
title of the English original. May have been: The Language
of the Goddess, since the English title of the second book
is: The Civilization of the Goddess, and chapter 8 of that
book is devoted to the Vinca signs: Heilige Schrift, in English
probably Sacred Sript. Marija Gimbutas doesn't mention the
sacred script in The Goddesses and Gods of Old Europe,
but she does mention it in her book on the Civilization of the
Goddess, and, as I recall, also in her book on the Language
of the Goddess. Beautiful books. I hope they can be found
in American libraries.

They were, and I think still are, ubiquitous. They're published by
HarperSanFrancisco, not exactly a scholarly publisher.

ANOTHER ERROR of yours !.. The original editions were published by
"Thames & Hudson" , a reputable editor !

Don't be ignarrogant.

T&H is a publisher, not an editor. (But not a scholarly publisher.)

Why would an American professor place her work with T&H?

OK, sorry ! I gave only half of the story !.. The book has been
published in 1974 by the "Berkeley University of California Press" ,
and by "Thames & Hudson" . If the last publisher is not a "scolarly"
publisher, the first one is.

You are not talking about the two books I described, but about the one I
have never seen.

If they were originally published by T&H and only released in the US by
HSF, then the copyright page would say so, and it does not.

The English is
the original, the German is a translation.

YES.


*The Language of the Goddess* (1989), $24.95 in pbk. (1991), makes it
abundantly clear that she interprets the signs as _symbols_ only, what
writing scholars call "ideograms," and hence not as writing. They are
the sole topic of that book.

CORRECT. But that "it is not "writing" " is YOUR opinion, which comes
from a restrictive and arbitrary definition of what is "writing" and
what is not !.. When one accepts the definition that there is "a
script" when any sign ou signs-group transmits a message which can be
understood by the "reader", then one may call "writing" a "NO ENTRY"
sign as well as the 7 letters alphabetic mention "No entry"... Both
they convey the same message, and both may be called "script" !..

You may define "script" however you wish. That, however, has no bearing
on the definition of "writing."

Writing represents _language_, not _"thought"_.

So, do you believe that one may "think" without using a "language" ???

Philosophers have been discussing that for 2500 years or so.

The only difference between "Ideographic Script" and the other types of
(phonetic) script, is that the signs are "read" by the reader in his
OWN language, what is not the case with the phonetic scripts, where the
"reader" must know the language of the "writer" to fully understand the
message.
I repeat it : the distinction you make between what is writing and what
is not is ARBITRARY and ARTIFICIAL. It's just a question of CONVENTION.

Chinese script is writing -- it cannot be read in any other language.
(Sino-Japanese and Sino-Korean are no exception -- they can't be read in
Chinese.)

Symbols that can be "read" in any language are not writing, because to
weaken/broaden the meaning of "writing" to cover any visual/semiotic
system merely means that another term would have to be devised for what
has hitherto been called "writing."
--
Peter T. Daniels grammatim@xxxxxxx
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Vinca script, cross bar angle - Ki Ri Ke
    ... I would have preferred the English versions of the two ... of the Goddess, since the English title of the second book ... sacred script in The Goddesses and Gods of Old Europe, ... not exactly a scholarly publisher. ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Vinca script, cross bar angle - Ki Ri Ke
    ... writing to anyone who studies writing carefully. ... Numbers are part of every language, ... you read chapter 8, The Sacred Script, of The Civilization ... The Language of the Goddess is about symbols "only." ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Vinca script, cross bar angle - Ki Ri Ke
    ... of the Goddess, since the English title of the second book ... sacred script in The Goddesses and Gods of Old Europe, ... not exactly a scholarly publisher. ... writing scholars call "ideograms," and hence not as writing. ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Vinca script, cross bar angle - Ki Ri Ke
    ... of the Goddess, since the English title of the second book ... sacred script in The Goddesses and Gods of Old Europe, ... not exactly a scholarly publisher. ... writing scholars call "ideograms," and hence not as writing. ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: [WR] round tuits
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