Re: Vinca script, cross bar angle - Ki Ri Ke

Franz Gnaedinger wrote:

Peter T. Daniels wrote:

We've been trying for a decade to do that, but the publisher has no
interest in a new edition.

A pity.

You should learn to spell what you're talking about. What
"decipherment"? Are you now going to claim that they record language and
not quantities?

Is the name quipu? Sorry, then. But for me they are a form
of writing.

Yes, you like to use words in your own private sense. They're not
writing to anyone who studies writing carefully.

Also noting numbers is a form of writing, and as

No, noting numbers is not a form of writing, it's ideography.

far as I know the first knots of each string indicate a place.
You can decipher numbers as well as letters. On the
Babylonian clay tablet Plimpton 322 are only numbers,
yet they have been written, and later deciphered. I don't live

No Babylonian tablet needs to be "deciphered" any more; the decipherment
was done well over 150 years ago. Mayan numerals could be read for
centuries before anyone even imagined that Maya writing was true writing
and not ideography to which the key was lost. Likewise, Egyptian
hieroglyphic numbers could be read for decades before Champollion
imagined that Egyptian writing was true writing and not ideography to
which the key was lost.

in the cage of your categories and choking classifications,

Do they record language?

Numbers are part of every language, and places too.

And neither numerals nor location glyphs for places belong to any
particular language.

I don't have a glass eye.

You go on dismissing the book by Derk Ohlenroth without
having laid much as the empty box of a blind old glass eye
on it, then. Doesn't make it any better, does it?

I don't have such a box, either. If you don't understand why the P.D. is
undecipherable as matters stand, then your entire battle with g. was for
nought.

I will continue to dismiss _every_ book about P.D.

There, you say it again. And you hope I will take you
seriously again?

I will also dismiss every book of so-called "American epigraphy," by
Barry Fell and his dupes.

I have carefully read Cyrus Gordon's work. It is baseless, so anything
based on it is equally baseless.

I know how you read Derk Ohlenroth, not at all, and how
you read chapter 8, The Sacred Script, of The Civilization
of the Goddess by Marija Gimbutas, twisting her words,
and I know how you read my messages. Won't take stock
in your reading capabilities.

I've never claimed to have read D.O., and I've read Gimbutas's chapter
-- or rather, the chapter in her book that contains things she herself
never claimed.

What makes you think this one particular tepe, out of all the tepes that
have been excavated and all the ones that haven't yet been, is special?
Because it's one you happen to have heard of?

Big sigh. If you had participated in the anthropological congress
held in southern Germany in 1898 (as I recall) you would certainly
have voted for the cave paintings being fakes. The participants
of that memorable congress voted, and then officially concluded
that cave paintings are fakes. You had voted for fakes without
ever much as having looked at a cave painting yer own self,
and you certainly will never look at the publications by Klaus
Schmidt on Goebekli Tepe. For others I recommend his book
that appeared recently. Just have a look at the pictures. And
always have the time in mind: 11 600 - 9 500 BP (before present).

Just looking at the pictures accomplishes nothing. You need to read the
text, also. Presumably it puts that site into the context of the other
sites of the same period.

I ask again, what's special about that particular site, as opposed to
all the other sites from similar times and places?

Apparently you have never read *The Language of the Goddess*, which is a
very big book about the Vinc^a script and nothing else, which makes no
claim whatsoever that the Vinc^a script is writing (except, of course,
in the art historian sense that any visual semiotic system may be
labeled "writing").

Yes, The Language of the Goddess is about symbols "only."
As I told you I have that book no more but gave it to a friend
of mine as a present for her diploma, which is why I wrongly
mentioned that book in the first place.

Then you should either go to the library, or buy yourself another copy.

The chapter on the
Sacred Script is found in The Civilization of the Goddess,
1991, and the way you are twisting Marija Gimbutas' words
in that chapter surley earns you a seat of honor among the
conspiracy kooks of talks.origins.

"Her" words in that chapter do not agree with anything she wrote over
the previous decades on the topic. It is therefore unlikely in the
extreme that she intended what that chapter says.

I am tired of your silly and systematic denying of everything
that goes beyond your book. Contact Joan Marler herself
and ask her about the Sacred Script. Here her address:

jmarler (a) archaeomythology.org

I contacted her this morning and just received her reply.
She is leaving for Europe and will read my pages when
she returns.

That's a typical polite response to nutcases who write to professors.

For the time being she forwarded my mail
to a Finnish linguist called Harald Haarman, the foremost
expert on the Danube / Vinca script, as she tells me.

Then you'll deserve what you get. Look up the reviews of his book,
*Universalgeschichte der Schrift*. A while back he sent me, unsolicited,
a package of offprints, and he's just as wacky as the others.

That's been done, actually. 10 or 15 years ago, they diverted the waters
for several months so they could shore up the precipice and update the
power stations. Unfortunately I didn't get to go see it.

Must have been a spectacle.

Again, one of the questions you ignored: How can you equate a Balkan
language of 5000 BCE with an Anatolian language of 15,000 BCE?

Sighing again. I am pondering the Magdalenian level from
around 15 000 BP, Goebekli Tepe lasted from 11 600 to
9 500 BP, the Vinca script from around 8 000 to 5 000 BP.
Magdalenian GYN 'women' became Ki Nae in the Balkans,
gynae in ancient Greek. Magdalenian NAI 'to find a good
place for to build a camp' may have become Nae in the
Balkans, represented by an Y, which, combined with an arc
for Os yields Nae Os for sanctuary. The Y may symbolize
two confluent rivers on the one hand, suitable for a camp,
and the female Y on the other had, indicating that the
sanctuary of the goddess is her womb, since the upper
lines of the womb of several figurines form a clear arc,
and the womb of the Bird Goddess was the origin of life.
There is plenty of wit * in the Vinca script. I love it.

Answer the question. What makes you think there is any legitimacy
whatsoever in comparing "languages" that are 10,000 years apart and
hundreds (or thousands?) of kilometers apart?

* While you are trying to be drier than an English man.
And you succeed. Which, however, amuses me sometimes.

--
Peter T. Daniels grammatim@xxxxxxx
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Vinca script, cross bar angle - Ki Ri Ke
    ... The Civilization of the Goddess, ... Joan Marler, her editor since 1987, held a speech at the ... Her interests are the language of art ... and the Vinca script. ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Vinca script, cross bar angle - Ki Ri Ke
    ... of the Goddess, since the English title of the second book ... sacred script in The Goddesses and Gods of Old Europe, ... not exactly a scholarly publisher. ... writing scholars call "ideograms," and hence not as writing. ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Vinca script, cross bar angle - Ki Ri Ke
    ... Numbers are part of every language, ... you read chapter 8, The Sacred Script, of The Civilization ... The Language of the Goddess is about symbols "only." ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Marginally archaeaology: Eight scripts that still cant be read
    ... WRITING is one of the greatest inventions in human history. ... literate civilisation at the time of the ... So how do you decipher an unknown script? ... there must be some link to a known language. ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Vinca script, cross bar angle - Ki Ri Ke
    ... of the Goddess, since the English title of the second book ... sacred script in The Goddesses and Gods of Old Europe, ... not exactly a scholarly publisher. ... writing scholars call "ideograms," and hence not as writing. ...
    (sci.lang)