Re: The etymology of the German Hell...


"Franz Gnaedinger" <frgn@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1156002920.737617.9060@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Heidi Graw wrote:

Hi Franz! I was hoping you would add to this thread. ;-)

Franz wrote:
Thanks. Before I read your suggested text, I d'like to
inform you about a find of mine: no meme for KEL and
permutations, but for KAL and permutations, regarding
the Underworld:

KAL --- cavity, cave, especially the Underworld traversed
by sun horse and moon bull, also painted caves such
as Lascaux; ancient Greek koilon for cavity (...), German
Hoehle for cave, English hill (many caves are inside hills),
Latin calor for warmth, heat (consider the warmth inside
a deep cave), ancient Greek kallos for beautiful (caves
are beautiful, and especially the painted ones)

LAK --- water in the depth of the Underworld; ancient
Greek lakkos for hole, ditch, pond, Latin lacus English
lake and loch, German Loch for hole

KLA --- sound the sun horse and moon bull make when
traversing the Underworld; ancient Greek klaggae for
sound, singing, noise (...), German Klang for sound,
Klappern for the sound hoofs make

ALK --- protection of the sun horse and the moon bull
in the Underworld, provided by the guiding snake;
ancient Greek alkos for protection

AKL --- brightness and splendor of the Underworld
when traversed by sun or moon; ancient Greek aglaia
for shine, splendour, beauty, brightness

LKA --- light of the midsummer sunhorse and of the
full moon; ancient Greek lyka-genaes for born out of
light (byname of Apollon), lyka-bas for year

Richard Fester proposed KALL for cave, woman,
source of life, and many more correlated meanings,
providing a long and impressive list of words in many
languages. The Indo-European reconstruction is
*kel-. Now, based on my approach to mine patterns
instead of considering single words I dare propose
KAL as origin of a plethory of words in recent
languages.

I googled for Richard Fester and came across the following:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Fester_(Linguist)

"Die Grundbedeutung des Urwortes "kall" { mit Zunge und Gaumen erzeugter
Konsonant (g,k) in Verbindung mit einem Vokal und einem Konsonanten wie l,
r, m oder n } bezeichnet einen "umschlossenen Hohlraum" so dass sich Wörter
wie "Halle", "Zelle" und "Quelle" oder deren Umkehrungen "Loch" und "Lache"
bildeten. Mit den Abkömmlingen des Urwortes "kall" wird eine Art Gefäß
umschrieben, aus dem etwas entspringen kann. Dass sehr viele weitere
Ableitungen ( "Gyn", "Girl", "Queen") die Bedeutung "Frau" haben, wird damit
erklärt, dass die Frau das "Gefäß des Lebens" ist. Die große Häufigkeit von
Wörtern mit diesem Stamm (gegenüber den anderen Urwörtern) ließ für Fester
nur einen Schluss zu. Er deutete diese als Beweis für ein Urmatriarchat,
eine These, die in dem Buch "Weib und Macht" gemeinsam mit anderen Autoren
diskutiert wurde.

****

What sort of reputation does Fester's work enjoy? I noticed he died in
1910. Do modern linguists respect his work?

What is important for my purposes are the Poetic Edda's and Snorri's Edda
accounts of the World Tree Yggdrasil and it's three roots under which 3
realms exist. Each root drawing water from a well, spring, and ocean. The
Gods each have their own Halls. There's also an abyss. So, Halle, Quelle
and Loch are very relevant words. The norn Urd plays a significant role in
people's lives, "Weib und Macht." ..."Woman and Power." ;-)

Urd's well is an important water source for one of the roots of Yggdrasil,
plus a daily gathering place for the Gods. Rydbergs argues a strong case
that Hel is Urd, and Hel is a place...balmy and beautiful, and Loki's
daughter is indeed some monstrous thing (not Hel) that the Gods tossed into
the abyss in Nifelhel (not balmy Hel).

This belief that Loki's daughter is Hel is something that Rydberg claims is
erroneous. He writes, "Colossal as this absurdity is, it has been believed
for centuries."

In any case, for years now I've read all sorts of things about Hel that
simply just didn't sit right. Something was wrong, but I couldn't quite
figure out what it was. However, just recently I came across Rydberg's
writings about Hel. All sorts of things began to fall into place and I
can't help but agree with his assessment. But, you can now appreciate why
this author and expert in Germanic Lore is despised by a great many. His
arguement threatens the very foundation upon which these people have built
their beliefs and which they've treasured for centuries!

Ah well...as it relates to me, Rydberg made sense. He cleared up a few
things for me. And he pretty much supports a lot of what I had gleaned for
myself but couldn't quite figure out as to why! ;-)

Heidi


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Relevant Pages

  • Re: The etymology of the German Hell...
    ... KAL --- cavity, cave, especially the Underworld traversed ... by sun horse and moon bull, ... ancient Greek koilon for cavity, ... Hoehle for cave, English hill, ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Magdalenian words and compounds 2006/7
    ... The moon bull running along with the red ... horse in the rotunda of the Lascaux cave represents ... the place where the young moon bull GEN ... ancient Greek rhoizeo for I rust, hiss, whiz, ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Magdalenian words and compounds 2006/7
    ... KAL --- cavity, cave, the Underworld traversed by the ... the source of life and regeneration; ancient Greek koilon ... KLA --- sounds the sun horse and moon bull make ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: what is etymology? (linguistics and biology)
    ... KAL --- cavity, cave, the Underworld traversed ... the evening sun and gave birth to the morning sun ... ancient Greek koilon for cavity, ... Celtic kald and German Quelle for well, ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: what is etymology? (linguistics and biology)
    ... ARC --- cave bear Ursus spelaeus, a formidable beast, ... ancient Greek krateo for I am strong, ... ChAR --- poles for making tents or hut, ...
    (sci.lang)
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