Re: The etymology of the German Hell...

Alan wrote:

as kel-1 and kel-2. Have a look at
http://www.bartleby.com/61/IEroots.html for more detail.
Homonymous PIE roots are not rare, and there is no need to "reconcile"
their existence.

"Heidi Graw" wrote
1. to cover or conceal.
2. to call, ring clear, luminous.
3. warm (as in lukewarm), cauldron
4. hill.

"Alan" wrote
(snip)

Is this German "hell" in any way connected to the P.Gmc. *khaljo
and/or
from PIE *kel- meaning "to cover, conceal save [as in save to keep]?"

phoglund wrote:
According to Wahrig, it comes from a PIE root *kel- meaning "rufen",
i.e. to call, to shout, and it is related to such German words as Hall
(as in "widerhallen") and Schall, Schelle. Intermediary stages are
Middle High German hellen "ertönen" (i.e. "to resound, to ring out")
and hel "tönend, laut, licht glänzend" i.e. "loud, luminous" - I
guess you can speak about loud colours or say that a colour is too
loud, in English, too.

(snip)

Alan wrote:
Oh wow, before you confuse yourself any further, and jump to even wilder
conclusions, you might want to read the following regarding the origins
of the name "Hel" (variants "Hella", "Hölle", etc):
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/5595/gods/hela.html

Alan, reconcile for me, please, the two different meanings offered for the
root PIE: *kel-

The one claims "to cover, conceal"...the other "rufen"..."to call, ring
out, luminous"

Old Norse and Old English claims Hella is that dark concealed one. Old
German, however, claims Hella is bright an fair. Two paths seemed to have
diverged from the root *kel-.

The one claiming *kel- is related to cell or cellar, and perhaps the
German Keller. However, to kellen, being a German speaker myself, I can
understand how *kel- can be related to sound...to call. Kelle in German
can mean signal. How do you signal someone? By calling perhaps?
Anyway, a German dialect of some sort may account for the difference.

In any case, there's a bunch of other stuff about Hel that I'm examining.
It's good to know that Wahrig has a different interpretation. I can also
understand why Wahrig may have chosen it.

First of all, it's important to realize that Wahrig doesn't have a
"different" interpretation for the meaning of *kel-. He has offered *kel-
(to shout) as PIE root for the German word "hell" meaning bright, light, or
loud. If Wahrig were consulted regarding the PIE root of the German word
"Hölle", he would have offered the PIE root *kel- (to conceal) as well.
There are words in English *and* in German which ultimately derive from
different meanings of the PIE *kel-. The 2 *kel are sometimes referred to
as kel-1 and kel-2. Have a look at http://www.bartleby.com/61/IEroots.html
for more detail.
Homonymous PIE roots are not rare, and there is no need to "reconcile" their
existence.
..........

1) "Is this German "hell" in any way connected to the P.Gmc. *khaljo
and/or from PIE *kel- meaning "to cover, conceal save [as in save to
keep]?"

I don't know about the assumed veracity of any putative *P.Gmc
constructs, but proceeding along my previous tac, I see the Baltic term
for 'cave' ; Lith. "ola" or Latvian "ala" to be the likely source for
the germanic 'hell'.

2) "According to Wahrig, it comes from a PIE root *kel- meaning
"rufen", i.e. to call, to shout, and it is related to such German words
as Hall (as in "widerhallen") and Schall, Schelle. Intermediary stages
are Middle High German hellen "ertönen" (i.e. "to resound, to ring
out") and hel "tönend, laut, licht glänzend" i.e. "loud, luminous" -
I"

Again it's from Baltic Lith. "kalba" meaning 'language' or 'speech'.

3) http://www.bartleby.com/61/IEroots.html - 'hill'
"kel-2
DEFINITION: To be prominent; hill. 1. Zero-grade form *k-. a. hill,
from Old English hyll, hill, from suffixed Germanic form *hul-ni-; b.
holm, from Old Norse hlmr, islet in a bay, meadow, from suffixed
Germanic form *hul-ma-. 2. Suffixed form *kel-d-. excel, from Latin
excellere, to raise up, elevate, also to be eminent (ex-, up out of;
see eghs). "

Wrong.
The germanic form is from Baltic; Lith. "kalva" meaning 'hill' or
Latvian (and Lithuanian) "kalna" meaning 'hill' or mountain.

The Latin 'excell' is an entirely different root - related to the
Baltic Latvian "celt" (pronounced 'tselt') meaning 'to raise up'.

PS: "You'll see that her name has nothing at all to do with brightness,

lightness, or blondeness. That Hel was referred to as
"Gná-of-Glitnir" (in
the Ynglingatal, by the way --- *not* the Ynglinga) also has nothing
at all
to do with "brightness" or any "wildly colourful" aspect of Hel, in
spite of
the fact that Glitnir happens to mean "shining" or "glistening"."

Baltic Latvian "glits" meaning 'pretty' or 'handsome'.
...


6101922 - 'Uno Hu'

.

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