Re: The etymology of the German Hell...


"Franz Gnaedinger" <frgn@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1157289330.312329.278440@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Heidi Graw wrote:

...but what sort of poisoneous Heath flower are you thinking about? Is
there an English or Latin name for it? Can you find a picture of it in
the
Google picture archives?

Franz wrote:
Heath rose, rock rose, Daphne ceorum.

Daphne doesn't have any prickles.

On the other hand,
Heiderose is a Scottish hedgerose, Rosa spinosissima,
an actual rose, with many spines.

That could be it.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bibernell-Rose

....real prickly little thing.

I looked up a dictionary
and found that both forms are in use: Heideröschen and
Heidenröschen, Heideröslein and Heidenröslein. The n-form
may be the older one. There might be a connection between
Heide for heath and Heide for heathen. Perhaps this one:
Christians go to Church, while heathens perform their
rituals in nature, in the heathland.

Depends on the weather. On dry days the ceremonies may take place outdoors.
On rainy days they can take place inside their Halls. Heathens did have
temples. Some made out of wood, others out of stone. They also had all
kinds of other little holy places, groves, hills, springs, special stones,
etc. If a particular landscape looked magical, it became holy.

(snip)

Franz wrote:
The utter simplicity of the poem is deceiving. I think
that as a teenager Goethe meet a beautiful gipsy girl,
a wild one who offered resistance, then he conquered
her, and broke her heart. In later years he felt guilty
about it, and, as a poet, transformed the suffering
he caused to the poor girl into beautiful language,
for a compensation - her suffering, balanced by our
joy and pleasure. A hypothesis. of course.

As that gypsy girl, she might also have cursed the boy who broke her heart.
For those few minutes of pleasure, she might have caused him feel life-long
pain and suffering!

In any case, you seem to like this gypsy girl fantasy. I'll leave you to it!
;-)

Take care,
Heidi


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: The etymology of the German Hell...
    ... Heath rose, rock rose, Daphne ceorum. ... Christians go to Church, while heathens perform their ... about it, and, as a poet, transformed the suffering ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: The etymology of the German Hell...
    ... Heide for heath and Heide for heathen. ... Christians go to Church, while heathens perform their ... different rituals, customs, beliefs and stories. ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: The etymology of the German Hell...
    ... Heide for heath and Heide for heathen. ... Heathens did have temples. ... have assorted different rituals, customs, beliefs and stories. ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: The etymology of the German Hell...
    ... Heide for heath and Heide for heathen. ... Christians go to Church, while heathens perform their ... rituals in nature, in the heathland. ...
    (sci.lang)