Re: Sentence-final 'but/'so'/'then'

Ron Jarvis wrote:
"Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:1162695948.525490.136790@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Colin Fine wrote:
Peter T. Daniels wrote:
sylh wrote:

[top-posting corrected]

Peter T. Daniels wrote:
sylh wrote:
I am currently working on non-standard positions of discourse
connectives, esp. sentence-final positions of 'but', 'then', and 'so'.

I have used the spoken part of the British National Corpus, the spoken

part of the Scottish English corpus, and the Newcastle English corpus
to find occurrences.

My first question concerns the semantic value of these adverbs in
final
positions.
-when 'but' is not preceded by a comma in the text (ie a pause in
speech), does it mean 'though' as in Australian English f.i.?
-when 'but' is preceded by a comma, has it got a
contrastive/adversative value or is it just like a particle like
'huh',
'what' in final position? Tell me about the meaning it conveys.
-when 'so' is preceded by a comma, does it mean 'in that way' or is it

just an intensifier meaning 'yes, indeed'?
- same question when 'so' is not preceded by a comma?
- I have the same questions for 'then'.

My second question is this: can you still classify theses adverbs as IP
adjuncts in this non-canonical syntactic position? It does not seem
that the synctactic position is clear.

Thanks for your feedback. Please remember to tell me about the dialect
you are using.
Examples?

Are you saying (from your choice of corpora) that this is a phenomenon
that doesn't appear in American English at all?

I suspect so, as I can't figure out what you're describing.
I have just examined British corpora: English from Newcastle, Scotland,
and from the BNC.
I know that the phenomenon exists for 'but' in New Zealand and
Australian English, but I do not know about American English.

Examples:

-I went and looked in the dustbin to see if he was back in there but.
-He would have stayed and while I did it but.

-Er, in those days women didn't work, but.
- it is classified as being part of Glasgow, but.

- she doesn't like particularly her job so.
She's about my size so.
I'm going out tomorrow so.

-You probably weren't very buoyant, so.
- I will do now, so.

-What vessel did you go on then ?
- Well I 'll have an ox tail then.

- that 's Saturday , then.
- And money wise she 's alright , then.
Yes, I don't know how to interpret the "but" and "so" ones, but the
"then" ones are perfectly normal; with the comma they mark that the
preceding sentence is an inference.

The first one is ambiguous between "what was your next means of
conveyance?" and "so if you couldn't get the vessel you wanted, which
one did you use instead?"

The second one should presumably have a comma, since it's reaction to
the news that what one wanted in the first place isn't available.

As for "IP adjuncts," I don't do Chomskyan syntax.

I also (in the UK) cannot make any sense of the forms with 'but' and
'so', unless they are elliptic. (I have seen a final 'so' in Irish
writing, but I'm not sure I have heard it, and I am also not sure of its
discourse meaning).

I'm *very* surprised that you should have found 'she doesn't like
particularly her job so' in a British corpus, as the position of
'particularly' is very unusual.

In the case of 'then', there's another discourse function beside the one
Peter mentioned: a sense of finality.

So "Well, I'll have on ox tail, then" could be as Peter said, but it
could also be used (without the comma, I think) after the speaker has
asked about several items in turn, and finally made a choice.

A more definite example is 'Well, that's got rid of him then!'
Aye, that sounds British.

Then there's the expression often heard from English coppers (at least in Monty Python skits) upon arrival at a ruckus:

"...'Ere, what's all this then?"


Good point. That's different again, I think: attached to a question, it's a assertion of authority or disapproval - perhaps just distancing:
"You know Bloggs, don't you?"
"Why, what's he been doing then?"

As I may have mentioned before one of the things I found odd when I moved to Yorkshire was 'Now, then!' which here can be a friendly greeting, but in the south means either 'Be careful!' or 'There's something I want to talk to you about!' with an implication that you are not going to find the discussion wholly enjoyable.


Colin

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