Re: Pseudo-cognates?

Dusan Vukotic <dusan.vukotic@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1166174271.894538.110680@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Piotr Panek wrote:
Dusan Vukotic napisa³:
Paul J Kriha wrote:
A Czech word "c^erstve'" (fresh) has an etymologically related
and sililarly sounding word in Polish meaning rotten, spoiled.
That should qualify. :-)

Polish 'zepsuty' (rotten, spoiled; Serb. 'zapahnuti').
It does not seem
to be similar to 'cerstve' (new, fresh, Polish 'nowy' new, fresh;
Serb. 'krepak' fresh). May be there is another polish word for rotten
(Czech. shnilý rotten; interesting, from 'hniloba' rottenness: Serb.
gnjilo rotten); vielleicht 'cervotoc', 'cervivý' wormy; Serbian
'crvati' infest; 'crv' vorm)

'Rotten, spoiled' is even rather "zgni³y" ("zepsuty" has more general
meaning - 'broken, not working, rotten').
Polish "czerstwy" when referred to bread means 'stale', which is
connected with drying, while 'rotten' is rather connected with moisture.
But when referred to a human (in such phrases as "czerstwy staruszek",
"czerstwa skóra" it remains its old meaning - 'healthy old man',
'healthy, though weathered, skin'). The last phrase preserves the medium
stage - "czerstwa skóra" is dried, but healthy, good, "czerstwy chleb"
is dried, so bad. But these phrases are rather archaic. You'd hear
"zdrowy staruszek", "zdrowa skóra" more frequently than "czerstwy ..."
Actually, "czerstwy chleb" is not as archaic as above phrases, but you
can also more frequently hear just "zesch³y chleb" 'dried bread'.

Thanks Piotrek!
I am not sure but it seems that the Polish 'czerstwy' is the same word
as Serbian 'čvrst' (stationary, solid, staunch, stable, tough);
This word (čvrst) has a very interesting etymology (the ancient basis
HOR-GON), from the Serbian word KORNJAV (crusty), KORA (crust, shell),
KORNJAČA (turtle); i.e. Serb. KORAST (crusty), KRASTA (crust). Now we
are able to see where the Latin 'crusta' came from. Apparently, all
crusty objects (Serb. KORASTI) are more or less hard (crusty loaf =>
"czerstwy chleb"); English 'hard' (hardning).
There is another Serbian word which explains the further evolution of
the above KORA and CRUST. It is the noun ČVOR (knot), obviously in
connection with the serbian verb 'učvrstiti' (consolidate, bolster).
On the other side 'čvor' has the 'kvrgast' (knoty) form - Serb. KVRGA,
ČVORUGA (nub).

There is a very interesting additional comparison between Serbian
syntagma USTAJALI HLEB and the English STALE LOAF - with the same
meaning!
Serbo-English language! -;)

You may have missed the fact that we seem to have
reached an agreement that in both Old Polish and Old
Czech (presumably in OSlavic as well) the original
meaning of the word was "fresh" and "healthy".

I don't believe that any of the miscellaneous vocab
you just pulled out of your top hat has anything to do
with "czerstwy".

pjk


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Relevant Pages

  • Re: Pseudo-cognates?
    ... Polish 'zepsuty' (rotten, spoiled; Serb. ... to be similar to 'cerstve' (new, fresh, Polish 'nowy' new, fresh; ... shnilý rotten; interesting, from 'hniloba' rottenness: ... as Serbian 'čvrst'; ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Pseudo-cognates?
    ... Polish 'zepsuty' (rotten, spoiled; Serb. ... shnilý rotten; interesting, from 'hniloba' rottenness: ... But when referred to a human (in such phrases as "czerstwy staruszek", ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Pseudo-cognates?
    ... and sililarly sounding word in Polish meaning rotten, ... shnilý rotten; interesting, from 'hniloba' rottenness: ... But these phrases are rather archaic. ...
    (sci.lang)