Re: some more Irish vowels

ranjit_mathews@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
More precisely, [E] is uncontroversially accepted as the transcription
of the vowel in Anglos' merry. A spread vowel between English [E] and
IPA [&] might well be closer to IPA [E] than is English [E], so your
"Mary" might have a vowel closer to IPA [E] than does your "merry". [E]
is also a transcription of the vowel Germans often write as a<umlaut>
and the transcription of the vowel French write as e<grave>.

15 Dec 2006 14:24:05 -0800: "Peter T. Daniels"
<grammatim@xxxxxxxxxxx>: in sci.lang:
You seem to be suggesting that IPA symbols have absolute values.

I though you did, by using the word "is".

This
is contrary to the position of the International Phonetic Association
(and, of course, distinct from Jone's Cardinal Vowels).

If they do not have absolute values (in terms of height etc.), what
_is_ their value? Do they them have relative values? Relative to what?
Other vowels? Can that be done without looking at a specific language?

but has obligatory spreading

That might explain a perception of similarity to [e] despite being
closer to [E] in openness. In openness and retractedness, English [E]
seems something like 2 O'clock of IPA [E] and 5 O'clock of IPA [e].

No idea what your o'clocks mean.

Direction in the vowel diagram? To lines with an intersection point?

... but if someone spreads IPA [3] more than it is spread in your
"bird", would you insist that it's no longer [3] but is nearly a
cardinal point more closed?

IPA doesn't have "cardinal points."

So what does it have? You said before that IPA and Cardinal vowels are
different. So what is the difference? A different approach? Then what
is that of IPA?

Whether "spread 3" is distinct from "3" depends on the phonemic system
of the language under consideration.

We were talking (articulatory and auditory) phonetics here, not
phonemics. Proof again that you yourself do not understand the
difference, of which you always accuse me.

--
Ruud Harmsen - http://rudhar.com
.

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