Re: some more Irish vowels


Ruud Harmsen wrote:
15 Dec 2006 13:18:52 -0800: "ranjit_mathews@xxxxxxxxx"
<ranjit_mathews@xxxxxxxxx>: in sci.lang:

No, Ruud. [E] is uncontroversially the vowel of merry.

More precisely, [E] is uncontroversially accepted as the transcription
of the vowel in Anglos' merry.

In my view it is not, as I've also often seen it as transacribed as e.
See also the explanation linked to yesterday (I think by Ekkehard):
http://www.yek.me.uk/ipadicts.html (section 5)
(link to it now also added in:
http://rudhar.com/foneport/en/lingglos.htm )

A spread vowel between English [E] and
IPA [&] might well be closer to IPA [E] than is English [E], so your
"Mary" might have a vowel closer to IPA [E] than does your "merry".

When trying [E] and [e] with spread instead of neutral lips, I hear no
effects that resemble that of heightening of lowering.

Then, what accounts for PTD's transcription as [e], or at any rate, his
citing someone else's transcription as [e] in order to throw light on
Mary?

In openness and retractedness, English [E]
seems something like 2 O'clock of IPA [E] and 5 O'clock of IPA [e].

I find it hard to hear or make such fine distinctions.

I can't either. I need to study formant charts of multiple languages/
dialects I have heard before I'm able to decide where another vowel I
know would be on a formant chart (and consequently, on the IPA
quadrilateral).

BUt you may well be right.

... but if someone spreads IPA [3] more than it is spread in your
"bird", would you insist that it's no longer [3] but is nearly a
cardinal point more closed?

Yes, it seems to sound more like [@], but I'm not sure I properly keep
the tongue still while changing lip position.
--
Ruud Harmsen - http://rudhar.com

.

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