Re: some more Irish vowels

17 Dec 2006 07:55:24 -0800: "Peter T. Daniels"
<grammatim@xxxxxxxxxxx>: in sci.lang:

Oh, this is a new low. Now you think _I_ was supposed to know that
_you_ think that <wedge> is an allograph of <shwa>, so that if wedge
doesn't appear in the chart, it was secretly hiding behind shwa??

Not an allograph, an allophone. You insisted they are allophones in
English many times. And you are right, they are.

If that were actually the case, how could both symbols be in your
beloved IPA chart? And which of them is mislabeled there?

There is no mislabeling, it's simply that wedge is in a different
place: mid-low back unrounded. IPA [V] is an unrounded [O], anglicist
{V] is mid-low slightly backer than central unrounded.
You can deny it as often as you want, it is still true.
(Madagascar! Jules Deelder).

Wedge _IS_ in mid-low (open-mid) back unrounded in the IPA chart. So
what is misleading about it?

Wedge does not represent a mid low back unrounded vowel.

In IPA it does. If only you would bother to look, you could see it.

It represents
the central vowel in cup etc. (what Smith-Trager phonemicize as
stressed shwa).

Yes, that is the convention when transcribing English, American and
British alike. That's what I said all along. So there is an ambiguity
in this symbol. Just like [a] and [æ] are ambiguous too.

(If you claim that cup etc. have a mid low back
unrounded vowel, you simply don't know English.)

I don't claim that and I never did claim that. If you'd simply finally
open that page I linked to 27 times already:
http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/arts/linguistics/russell/138/sec5/ipavsna.htm
and FINALLY READ WHAT IT SAYS (at "The IPA chart treats [] as an
unrounded back vowel. The tic-tac-toe chart treats it as a central
vowel" and below) you could know.

Please stop wasting everybody's time by commenting on what you refuse
to read. Either read it or else shut up.

--
Ruud Harmsen - http://rudhar.com
.

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