Re: Donkey and monkey

Paul J Kriha wrote:

Douglas G. Kilday <fufluns@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1167680756.277505.203800@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Paul J Kriha wrote:
Mike Wright <news@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote ...

[...]

Yes, 'cause you talk funny. (And what's "shonky"?)

It's a common Austral. and N.Z. informal expression
meaning "of dubious integrity or legallity; unreliable,
unsound" as in "shonky lawyer". :-)

It could be a contraction of sh(oddy) + (w)onky.

Given the usage with lawyers,

I gave "shonky lawyer" as an example, but "shonky"
is not associated with layers specifically.

it is more likely that <shonky> comes
from <shonk>, a derogatory term for 'Jew' attested in U.S. slang.

I'd be very surprised if the Australasian "shonky" had anything
at all to do with any U.S.slang or any derogatory terms for Jews.

pjk

Actually, both Orsman's NZEng dictionary and the Aus Nat Dic offer this
etymology. Not as certain, but there's no obvious better alternative.
The "shonicker"/"shonk" etc terms for "Jew" are not necessarily US --
"shonk" at least is given in OED as "Cockney" from the 1930s. But I've
never heard them outside of a dictionary. In fact the etymology was
quite a surprise to me when I looked up "shonky" in Orsman. I think that
for most if not all speakers now, it associates with words such as you
mention: shoddy, shady, shaky. (Is it only in NZ that it also means
physically unsafe or unsound, like a building?)
I think the derivation is plsusible, though the semantic and formal
history of the "Jew" terms is a bit obscure. But by the time the current
Australasian usage appears (ca.1970), the original ethnic epithet is no
longer current. (I agree with OED that Australian "shonk" = "One engaged
in irregular or illegal business activities" is probably a
back-formation from the adjective.) "Shonky" is now roughly synonymous
with "dodgy", maybe stronger? This raises the interesting question of
whether we should avoid the word because of what we know (we think)
about its history?

Ross Clark
.

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