Re: Khoisan is very old

On Apr 3, 3:12 am, "jfm" <nss2...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Darkstar wrote:

In other words, you mean there are archeological and historical facts
confirming that Bushmen were farmers in the past, and then they took
out their bows and reverted to hunting again? They are not
prehistorical hunter/gatherers but farmers like Bantu?

Hunting/gathering is certainly an old way of life, if not the oldest.
Ancient rock paintings can easily testify to hunting/gathering being
"archaic". But that doesn't mean that it's a permanent way of life,
nor is it necessary to assume that those people who at one point live
as mainly hunter-gathererers must have done so since the beginning of
time. People can change and mix their life styles quite easily. It's
not a fixed condition.

That was my (main) point. I didn't want to imply that the Khoisan-
speakers were formerly farmers. Many of them have been pastoralists at
some point in history, but presumably not farmers. The main problem
with sub-Saharan history is that anything before, say, 1500 is mainly
conjecture. There are archaeological data, true, but equating
archaeological finds with ethnicities and languages is both
speculative and difficult (even impossible).

Nowadays, few Khoisan-speakers are actually hunter/gatherers. Most of
them live either in towns or on farms.

Worth pointing out is the fact that Khoisan-speaking peoples do not
form any natural unit, neither linguistically nor anthropologically.
The Khoisan-speking peoples comprise a heterogenous collection of
several separate groups of peoples. They speak unrelated languages and
do not form any cultural unit, neither now nor at any known time in
history.

Besides, the large majority of all known Khoisan-speaking peoples have
been pastoralists, not hunter-gatherers, ever since they were first
recorded by the early Dutch at the Cape. The so-called Bushmen form
only a small minority within the artificially created grouping
"Khoisan".

Okay, pastoralists, not farmers.

But ethnography shows that clear-cut cases of reversal to a more
primitive economy are rare (and if they do happen, are easily
identifiable as such). Since you have not provided any specific
counter-examples, let us consider this to be generally true.

Still, if we were to disregard all that for the sake of argument, and
assume that the Khoisan-speaking hunter/gatherers would have been
hunter/gatherers ever since the beginning of time (again, for the sake
of argument only), then you would still not be able to conclude from
that, by any known reputable methodology, that click sounds (a
structural feature of their languages) would be archaic, too.

---
jfm

All I'm saying is this. If a set of phenomena {A1, A2, A3} all have
property S, then phenomenon A4 from the same set will also be
characterized by property S.
So if group A is genetically old, and it employs an old-fashioned
economic system, and the languages of this group are highly divergent
and not related to any other family (which implies thousands of years
of evolution), and finally, if it has a unique linguistic feature
(clicks) not found elsewhere in natural languages, then this feature
is probably old, as well. As simple as that.

By assuming that it's new, you're actually introducing a hidden ad hoc
theory, which you won't be able to support by any specific facts. On
the contrary, assuming that it is old does not require any special
conjectures---it's just a direct corollary of the above.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Khoisan is very old
    ... confirming that Bushmen were farmers in the past, ... some point in history, but presumably not farmers. ... few Khoisan-speakers are actually hunter/gatherers. ... the large majority of all known Khoisan-speaking peoples have ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Khoisan is very old
    ... confirming that Bushmen were farmers in the past, ... out their bows and reverted to hunting again? ... prehistorical hunter/gatherers but farmers like Bantu? ... Careful study of nomadism and semi-nomadism in the ancient Near East ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Khoisan is very old
    ... confirming that Bushmen were farmers in the past, ... out their bows and reverted to hunting again? ... prehistorical hunter/gatherers but farmers like Bantu? ... The switch of those North American tribes from farming to ...
    (sci.lang)