Re: Thwart; Serbian odvratiti

<lorad474@xxxxxx> wrote ...
Harlan Messinger<hmessinger.removet...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> lorad...@xxxxxx wrote:
> On May 10, 12:29 pm, Harlan Messinger
> <hmessinger.removet...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Dušan Vukotić wrote:

>>> Twarth? This English word is similar to the Serbian verb
>>> 'odvratiti' (avert; turn aside; divert!;-); Russian отвращать, >>> Czech
>>> odvrátit;
>>> Are these words inter-related, including the possible relation
>>> between

>> No.

>> Why don't you do yourself a favor and look up the origins of the >> words
>> that catch your eye yourself instead of hoping that if you >> excitedly
>> shout "Eureka" here every day about something or other, one day >> you'll
>> hit on an amazing discovery? At least notice the most obvious >> things
>> such as the fact that in "divert", "di-" is a prefix, and I'm >> guessing
>> that "ot-", "od-" is also a prefix.

> It is. Slavic prefix 'ot' meaning 'from' or 'out of'.

> I hate to say it but, (bez)Dushan has tripped upon a likely cognate > of
> Latin 'vert'...
> Not that it has a direct genetic relationship to 'verto'.. but > that's
> another story.

Perhaps. But if you look back at the history of "thwart" you reach a
form that wouldn't lead anyone to expect a connection, making it clear
that any superficial resemblence one might see with the modern word is
only the result of later evolution

Clarification..
I only meant DV's Serbian verb 'odvratiti'.
Parsed out it's 'ot' + 'vrat'.
The 'vrat' I see as cognate with Latin 'vert/o'.
I find additional support for such a common IE interpretation in
Baltic Latvian where 'verst' (long e) also means 'to turn'.

'Thwart', as you say, looks too long a stretch for any direct south
Slavic 'otvrat'.

Myself, I would suspect some German transitional form indicating
evolution from Baltic 'tvert' and resultant English 'thwart'.

<Thwart> is cognate with Latin <torqueo>, I believe, (PIE *terk(w)-). It's apparently not related to Latin <verto> (PIE *wert-) or Slavic *vrat- (Russian <вращать> or Lithuanian <versti> at all.

According to my Lithuanian dictionary, <tverti> means "sieze, grab". I don't know anything about its etymology. Lithuanian <verti>, "thread a needle", is cognate with Russian <verat'>, "prick", from PIE *(h2)wer-.

John.








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