Re: Thwart; Serbian odvratiti

John Atkinson <johnacko@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:aSt2i.38494$M.13633@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<lorad474@xxxxxx> wrote ...
Harlan Messinger<hmessinger.removet...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
lorad...@xxxxxx wrote:
On May 10, 12:29 pm, Harlan Messinger
<hmessinger.removet...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Dušan Vukotić wrote:

Twarth? This English word is similar to the Serbian verb
'odvratiti' (avert; turn aside; divert!;-); Russian отвращать,
Czech
odvrátit;
Are these words inter-related, including the possible relation
between

No.

Why don't you do yourself a favor and look up the origins of the
words
that catch your eye yourself instead of hoping that if you
excitedly
shout "Eureka" here every day about something or other, one day
you'll
hit on an amazing discovery? At least notice the most obvious
things
such as the fact that in "divert", "di-" is a prefix, and I'm
guessing
that "ot-", "od-" is also a prefix.

It is. Slavic prefix 'ot' meaning 'from' or 'out of'.

I hate to say it but, (bez)Dushan has tripped upon a likely cognate
of
Latin 'vert'...
Not that it has a direct genetic relationship to 'verto'.. but
that's
another story.

Perhaps. But if you look back at the history of "thwart" you reach a
form that wouldn't lead anyone to expect a connection, making it clear
that any superficial resemblence one might see with the modern word is
only the result of later evolution

Clarification..
I only meant DV's Serbian verb 'odvratiti'.
Parsed out it's 'ot' + 'vrat'.
The 'vrat' I see as cognate with Latin 'vert/o'.
I find additional support for such a common IE interpretation in
Baltic Latvian where 'verst' (long e) also means 'to turn'.

'Thwart', as you say, looks too long a stretch for any direct south
Slavic 'otvrat'.

Myself, I would suspect some German transitional form indicating
evolution from Baltic 'tvert' and resultant English 'thwart'.

<Thwart> is cognate with Latin <torqueo>, I believe, (PIE *terk(w)-).
It's apparently not related to Latin <verto> (PIE *wert-) or Slavic
*vrat- (Russian <вращать> or Lithuanian <versti> at all.

According to my Lithuanian dictionary, <tverti> means "sieze, grab". I
don't know anything about its etymology. Lithuanian <verti>, "thread a
needle", is cognate with Russian <verat'>, "prick", from PIE *(h2)wer-.

Right, Latin <aperio>, Got. <warjan>, Pruss. <etwerreis>.

The Slavic <-vrat-> is a highly productive word stem. There are
zillions of related words, such as <vrata> gates. Semantically,
they usually have something to do with turning/rotating/flipping.

However, I agree <-vrat-> words are not cognates of E. <thwart> or
Lit. <tverti>.

pjk









John.









.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Thwart; Serbian odvratiti
    ... The 'vrat' I see as cognate with Latin 'vert/o'. ... Baltic Latvian where 'verst' also means 'to turn'. ... evolution from Baltic 'tvert' and resultant English 'thwart'. ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Thwart; Serbian odvratiti
    ... Baltic Latvian where 'verst' also means 'to turn'. ... 'Thwart', as you say, looks too long a stretch for any direct south ... I would suspect some German transitional form indicating ... evolution from Baltic 'tvert' and resultant English 'thwart' ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Thwart; Serbian odvratiti
    ... Baltic Latvian where 'verst' also means 'to turn'. ... 'Thwart', as you say, looks too long a stretch for any direct south ... I would suspect some German transitional form indicating ... evolution from Baltic 'tvert' and resultant English 'thwart'. ...
    (sci.lang)
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