Re: Thwart; Serbian odvratiti

On May 16, 4:18 am, "John Atkinson" <johna...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
<lorad...@xxxxxx> wrote ...





Harlan Messinger<hmessinger.removet...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
lorad...@xxxxxx wrote:
On May 10, 12:29 pm, Harlan Messinger
<hmessinger.removet...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Dušan Vukotić wrote:

Twarth? This English word is similar to the Serbian verb
'odvratiti' (avert; turn aside; divert!;-); Russian отвращать,
Czech
odvrátit;
Are these words inter-related, including the possible relation
between
No.

Why don't you do yourself a favor and look up the origins of the
words
that catch your eye yourself instead of hoping that if you
excitedly
shout "Eureka" here every day about something or other, one day
you'll
hit on an amazing discovery? At least notice the most obvious
things
such as the fact that in "divert", "di-" is a prefix, and I'm
guessing
that "ot-", "od-" is also a prefix.

It is. Slavic prefix 'ot' meaning 'from' or 'out of'.

I hate to say it but, (bez)Dushan has tripped upon a likely cognate
of
Latin 'vert'...
Not that it has a direct genetic relationship to 'verto'.. but
that's
another story.

Perhaps. But if you look back at the history of "thwart" you reach a
form that wouldn't lead anyone to expect a connection, making it clear
that any superficial resemblence one might see with the modern word is
only the result of later evolution
Clarification..
I only meant DV's Serbian verb 'odvratiti'.
Parsed out it's 'ot' + 'vrat'.
The 'vrat' I see as cognate with Latin 'vert/o'.
I find additional support for such a common IE interpretation in
Baltic Latvian where 'verst' (long e) also means 'to turn'.
'Thwart', as you say, looks too long a stretch for any direct south
Slavic 'otvrat'.
Myself, I would suspect some German transitional form indicating
evolution from Baltic 'tvert' and resultant English 'thwart'.

<Thwart> is cognate with Latin <torqueo>, I believe, (PIE *terk(w)-).
It's apparently not related to Latin <verto> (PIE *wert-) or Slavic
*vrat- (Russian <вращать> or Lithuanian <versti> at all.

According to my Lithuanian dictionary, <tverti> means "sieze, grab".  I
don't know anything about its etymology.   Lithuanian <verti>, "thread a
needle", is cognate with Russian <verat'>, "prick", from PIE *(h2)wer-.

John.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What can you say about Ulfila's andavaurd (Ger. Antwort answer; að
verða a., to come to words with...)? Now we see that the Serbian
'odgovoriti'(answer), 'odvratiti' (side track, divert, repulse,
answer) are the cognates to the Gothic 'and-waúrdyan' (answer) - (Gon-
Bel-Hor basis; cf. Serbian 'ogo-varati' gossip, 'pre-go-varati'
negotiate).

Latin torqeo (torquere, torsi, tortus turn, twist; torsion) is
generated from the Hor-Gon basis (Latin circo, circare; Serbian
kruženje /circulate/, krug /circle/; German Kreis; Italian cerchia,
circolo, girone, cerchio /circle/; Greek θεωρείο, θεάτρου; Serbian
ćeranje => teranje, terati /driving, drive/ - velar to dental change -
obterati /drive in circle/, Latin orbit ;-)

Latvian tverti is the cognate of the Serbian word tvrd (hard), utvrda,
tvrđava, utvrđenje (stronghold); Latvian tvert has the meaning
"grasp"; tveršana means "capture" and it is an equivalent to the
Serbian words <utvrditi> (to harden, ascertain, establish), "utvrditi
znanje" (to fix the knowledge); Latvian 'aptvert' (conceive, realize,
comprise, grip, apprehend, grasp etc.) is a counterpart to the Serbian
word 'potvrditi' (to confirm, acknowledge, support its claim, assert,
ratify)...

In reality, all the following words are cognates: Latin vertex,
Serbian 'breg' (hill; German Berg), English word, preach, German
predigen (Serbian pridika (prich), Serbian obratati se (address,
refer), obrt (turnover, turn), Latin orbit, Serbian vrteti (spin,
rotate), vrh (peak, apex)...

DV




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