Re: Armenian, Sumerian, Burushaski, and Turkic languages

On 28 touko, 14:15, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On May 28, 6:02 am, phogl...@xxxxxx wrote:



On 26 touko, 06:04, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On May 25, 6:40 pm, Nathan Sanders <nsand...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

In article <1180128786.311857.119...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
"Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On May 25, 5:21 pm, Nathan Sanders <nsand...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
In article <10dpk2du0vzbi.1gtarz30100hu$....@xxxxxxxxxx>,
"Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On 25 May 2007 10:16:57 -0700, "Peter T. Daniels"
<gramma...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
<news:1180113417.587667.255010@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
in sci.lang:

On May 25, 12:20 pm, Nathan Sanders <nsand...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

That right there is a problem. Many common sound changes
(debuccalization,

I've never heard of "debuccalization." What do cheeks have to do with
articulatory phonetics?

I believe that it refers to a kind of lenition in which an
obstruent loses its oral articulation, typically becoming
[h] or [?]; I've seen it defined simply as 'loss of place of
articulation'.

That's precisely the usage I intended.

However, I've also seen the term extended to
cover lenition of [d] to [G] in Irish.

I haven't seen that usage, but I don't doubt that it's been used that
way. I think it's also been similarly extended to cover shift in
place of articulation for nasals to a velar or uvular.

It's not in Laver, Ladefoged & Maddieson, or Ladefoged.

Neither is "lenition" (at least, not in Ladefoged and Maddieson or
Ladefoged---I don't have Laver to check). These are terms used
primarily in historical linguistics and phonology, not in phonetics.

Trask (1996) uses "debuccalization" on p.57, though only specifically
for oral stops going to [?]. I don't have Campbell handy, so I can't
check how/if he uses it.

In the 2nd ed., not at all.

I learned "lenition" and "lenited" from Robert A. Hall, Jr. -- but I
didn't connect the two spoken words until I saw them in print.

If our friend is using it in the specifically Irish sense, it means -
roughly, and historically, speaking - the initial mutation of stops
into fricatives. The lenition of [d] into [G] is due to the loss of
[D] in Irish - the earlier, regular [d] into [D] lenition was replaced
by a [d] into [G] lenition. There is of course a regular [g] into [G]
lenition.-

Who is "our friend," and who in this thread has used it for Irish,

Brian is our friend, who seemed to use "lenition" for Irish, and as it
is an ubiquitous term in Irish grammar, I committed the grave error of
assuming that Peter T. Daniels would have the intellectual curiosity
of wanting to be informed what exactly if means in the Irish context.
However, as always, Peter T. Daniels is as lacking in intellectual
curiosity as always.

and
why would that have anything to do with my class with Robert A. Hall,
Jr.?


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