Re: Continents in Chinese

On Jul 2, 5:16 pm, LEE Sau Dan <dan...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
"ekkilu" == ekkilu <ekk...@xxxxxxxxx> writes:

ekkilu> Europe: Ouzhou Dalu Asia: Yazhou Dalu Eurasia: Ouya Dalu
ekkilu> Africa: Feizhou Dalu America: Meizhou Dalu North America:
ekkilu> Beimeizhou Dalu, Beimei Dalu South America: Nanmeizhou
ekkilu> Dalu, Nanmei Dalu Antarctica: Nanji Dalu, Nanjizhou Dalu
ekkilu> Australia: Aozhou Dalu Oceania: Dayangzhou Dalu
>> Note that <zhou1> alone already represents "continent". There
>> is no need to repeat "da4lu4" (continent). If you do so, then
>> you sound "geographical/geological".

ekkilu> Sigh... the "repetition" here is not with "Dalu", but with
ekkilu> "zhou". As you can see, "zhou" can be dropped in many
ekkilu> cases.

No, you can't. You say <ou1 da4lu4> and no one would understand you.

I can't? I surely can, as in Beimei Dalu, Nanmei Dalu, Naji Dalu. Not
only I can, other people can, and do. Google is your friend.

LEARN TO READ. I said "many cases". I did not say "all cases". You
were the one that said "there is no need to repeat 'da4lu4'", which is
utterly nonsense and plainly wrong. "Dalu" cannot be omitted, at all.
If anything, "Zhou" is the term that can be omitted in many cases, as
I have explicitly shown from the very beginning.

Just because you want so badly to merge Dalu with Zhou, doesn't mean
that the Chinese speaking majority will agree with you. To be precise,
in the case of Eurasia, "Ouya Dalu" wins over "Ouya Dazhou" by a ratio
of 26400:687 (Google hit counts), or roughly 400:1. You are in the
hopeless minority.

English has the two words "home" and "house": one with the human
element and the other one without. Just because Chinese has a single
term <Jia> for both, doesn't mean that the English speakers will merge
their two terms, ever.

Conversely, just because English has one single term for "continent",
doesn't mean that the Chinese will merge "Dalu" and "Zhou", ever.

When this compound word is in turn used to build a longer compound, we
drop the <da4> to make the compound concise. So, <ou1luo2ba1> (Europa)
+ <da4zhou1> (continent) becomes <ou1luo2ba1 zhou1> (Europe), which is
routinely abbreviated as <ou1zhou1>.

Routinely abbreviated? Give me a break. Find me a single map where it
is not abbreviated. If you cannot even find a map where it is not
abbreviated, you have to accept the fact that it was never even an
abbreviation. And bear in mind that many maps often are official
documents, hence abbreviations are not allowed.

Yes, I think so. The Chinese learnt about the name "Australia" from
the Europeans, and I guess by that time, the Europeans have already
designated Australia as a "continent".

Australian government's website still considers Australia as an island
and as a continent. I doubt that the situation was better before.

Right. That's a single, unified concept. We coined <da4zhou1> to
translate "continent".

Dazhou, Xiaozhou, and heck, even Zhongzhou have all been used in
Chinese historical writing. Zhou is a continuum.

It depends on what people you're asking. We all learn basic world
geographic in elementary school. Most of us learn "Australia" from
the "List of the Seven Continents". (For those who are too poor to
attend school, he may have learnt about "The Seven Continents" from
parents, or other educated friends. We regard this knowledge as just
common sense.) So, we're aware of the designation of "Australia" as a
continent from a very small age.

It depends on where you learn it from. In Taiwan, the list of Dazhous
includes Oceania, not Australia.

Which continent besides Australia has got an "officially recognized"
name?

Find a map. Show me a single map that has the "non-abbreviated" name
that uses "Dazhou". I am so sorry, you can't even find such a map? Not
even one? So much for you abbreviation theory.

<Zhong1> translates "Central".
<Mei3zhou1> translates "America".

What's wrong?

Read the link I gave to you. http://www.lygtzy.gov.cn/dzzk/kpzhch/gjdl/2759.html
In the last paragraph, Latin America is explicitly mentioned as a
Dazhou.

You tend to analyze <zhong1mei3zhou2> by splitting it into <zhon1mei3>
+ <zhou1>, and then insist that it refers to some island or continent.
+ I tell you you're wrong. This compound is formed as <zhong1> +
+ <mei3zhou1>. And <mei3zhou1> is itself a compound from the
abbreviations of <a4_mei3_li4jia1> + <da4zhou1>, which mean "America"
and "continent", respectively.

So America is a Dazhou, that is, America is a continent? I thought you
said there are only seven continents according to you, this must be
your number eight, then? Are you saying

(a) America is not a continent because it's not on the list of 7
continents
(b) Beimeizhou, zhongmeizhou, Nanmeizhou are derived from Meizhou,
which comes from the abbreviation of Yameilijia and Dazhou, which
means America is a continent
(c) So America is a continent
(d) But it cannot be a continent, loop back to (a)

So America is a Dazhou, or not? You are in deep dilemma, right?

(a) America is a Dazhou: then you'll admit that people do use Dazhou
in a more loose way, including Latin America and Central America.
(I've already shown you an article that states explicitly Latin
America is a Dazhou.)
(b) America is not a Dazhou: it destroys your abbreviation theory.

You get into all these chicken-and-egg existential problems because
you insist on using English's terms and concepts to analyze Chinese.

-- Ekki

.

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