Re: Subtitutes for English /T/ and /D/


Ar an séú lá déag de mí Iúil, scríobh Oliver Cromm:

* Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:

On 16 Jul, 09:21, "John Atkinson" <johna...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
<phogl...@xxxxxx> wrote...
Ruud Harmsen <realemailons...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Many people now often use a correct [T] (but not a correct /D/!).
But if they do substitute it bu anything alse, it is by [s], not
[t].

I guess we use mostly [t] and [d] here in Finland. The good old days
when "the" was rendered as "röh" are regrettably gone.

Why do French speakers from France use [s] and [z], while those from
Quebec use [t] and [d]?

Not just the French but also the Spanish.

Even Germans.

Well, the actual Spanish manage [θ] just fine. I’ll be paying attention next
time I talk to one for how [ð] comes out; it hasn’t stuck in my mind up to
now.

I have often wondered why non-natives use [s] and [z] or [t] and [d]
but many natives use [f] and [v]. [s] and [z] or [t] and [d] mark you
as non-native but [f] and [v] might not.

Presumably because to their foreigners' ears, [T] and [f] or [d] and [v]
sound too different. We foreigners don't substitute, we approximate.
Likewise I hear foreigners approximate German ü (/y/) as /u/ or /yu/,
where, from a German perspective, /i/ would be the more natural
replacement.

I recommended /d/ several times as a better alternative to /z/ to
Germans who couldn't do /D/, should I reconsider?

Not in my opinion. /d/ reflects some native speaker accents, whereas /z/
does not. I notice that Ossis who’ve learned English informally do go for
/d/; cf. Rammstein’s [dɪs ɪs not ə lʌv soŋ], at 2:26 here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w9EksAo5hY


--
On the quay of the little Black Sea port, where the rescued pair came once
more into contact with civilization, Dobrinton was bitten by a dog which was
assumed to be mad, though it may only have been indiscriminating. (Saki)
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Subtitutes for English /T/ and /D/
    ... Not just the French but also the Spanish. ... sound too different. ... We foreigners don't substitute, we approximate. ... unreadability of binary formats. ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Subtitutes for English /T/ and /D/
    ... many Spanish can easily do. ... > sound too different. ... We foreigners don't substitute, we approximate. ... > Germans who couldn't do /D/, ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Subtitutes for English /T/ and /D/
    ... Not just the French but also the Spanish. ... sound too different. ... where, from a German perspective, /i/ would be the more natural ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Subtitutes for English /T/ and /D/
    ... > sound too different. ... We foreigners don't substitute, we approximate. ... dialects. ... Fortunately, I am not a teacher, and personally have no trouble ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Subtitutes for English /T/ and /D/
    ... We foreigners don't substitute, we approximate. ... If you wish to sound native then ... but Irish accents in which "th" merges with the alveolar stops are ...
    (sci.lang)
Loading