Re: Subtitutes for English /T/ and /D/


<jwlawler@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:1184618982.238706.154190@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Jul 16, 5:41 pm, Oliver Cromm <lispamat...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
* Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:
> On 16 Jul, 09:21, "John Atkinson" <johna...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> <phogl...@xxxxxx> wrote...
>> Ruud Harmsen <realemailons...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> Many people now often use a correct [T] (but not a correct /D/!).
>>>> But if they do substitute it bu anything alse, it is by [s], not
>>>> [t].
>>> I guess we use mostly [t] and [d] here in Finland. The good old days
>>> when "the" was rendered as "röh" are regrettably gone.

>> Why do French speakers from France use [s] and [z], while those from
>> Quebec use [t] and [d]?

> Not just the French but also the Spanish.

Even Germans.

> I have often wondered why non-natives use [s] and [z] or [t] and [d]
> but many natives use [f] and [v]. [s] and [z] or [t] and [d] mark you
> as non-native but [f] and [v] might not.

Presumably because to their foreigners' ears, [T] and [f] or [d] and [v]
sound too different. We foreigners don't substitute, we approximate.
Likewise I hear foreigners approximate German ü (/y/) as /u/ or /yu/,
where, from a German perspective, /i/ would be the more natural
replacement.

I recommended /d/ several times as a better alternative to /z/ to
Germans who couldn't do /D/, should I reconsider?


It depends on your objective. If you wish to sound native then
consider using [f] and [v] but an argument against is that these
dialects are not very prestigious. To conform to them you may need to
also drop [h]. I don't know if all dialects which replace [T] with
[f] also drop [h] but the ones that I am familiar with do. If you
can't do [T] and don't want to substitute [f] then I would also
recomend [t], ditto [D] to [d]. Some Irish do that. (Hard to know
which brackets I should be using here.)

--
Seán Ó Leathlóbhair

.

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