Re: Subtitutes for English /T/ and /D/


"Richard Wordingham" <jrw0602@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:UaUmi.38633$_14.35688@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<jwlawler@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1184618982.238706.154190@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Jul 16, 5:41 pm, Oliver Cromm <lispamat...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
* Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:
On 16 Jul, 09:21, "John Atkinson" <johna...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
<phogl...@xxxxxx> wrote...
Ruud Harmsen <realemailons...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Many people now often use a correct [T] (but not a correct /D/!).
But if they do substitute it bu anything alse, it is by [s], not
[t].
I guess we use mostly [t] and [d] here in Finland. The good old days
when "the" was rendered as "röh" are regrettably gone.

Why do French speakers from France use [s] and [z], while those from
Quebec use [t] and [d]?

Not just the French but also the Spanish.

Even Germans.

I have often wondered why non-natives use [s] and [z] or [t] and [d]
but many natives use [f] and [v]. [s] and [z] or [t] and [d] mark you
as non-native but [f] and [v] might not.

Presumably because to their foreigners' ears, [T] and [f] or [d] and [v]
sound too different. We foreigners don't substitute, we approximate.
Likewise I hear foreigners approximate German ü (/y/) as /u/ or /yu/,
where, from a German perspective, /i/ would be the more natural
replacement.

I recommended /d/ several times as a better alternative to /z/ to
Germans who couldn't do /D/, should I reconsider?


It depends on your objective. If you wish to sound native then
consider using [f] and [v] but an argument against is that these
dialects are not very prestigious. To conform to them you may need to
also drop [h]. I don't know if all dialects which replace [T] with
[f] also drop [h] but the ones that I am familiar with do. If you
can't do [T] and don't want to substitute [f] then I would also
recomend [t], ditto [D] to [d]. Some Irish do that.

True, but Irish accents in which "th" merges with the alveolar stops are
anything but prestigious. Dental stops, which preserve the oppositions, are
much more common and less stigmatised.

Regards,
Ekkehard


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Subtitutes for English /T/ and /D/
    ... But if they do substitute it bu anything alse, it is by, not ... We foreigners don't substitute, we approximate. ... If you wish to sound native then ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Subtitutes for English /T/ and /D/
    ... But if they do substitute it bu anything alse, it is by, not ... We foreigners don't substitute, we approximate. ... If you wish to sound native then ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Subtitutes for English /T/ and /D/
    ... But if they do substitute it bu anything alse, it is by, not ... sound too different. ... We foreigners don't substitute, we approximate. ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Subtitutes for English /T/ and /D/
    ... But if they do substitute it bu anything alse, it is by, not ... sound too different. ... We foreigners don't substitute, we approximate. ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Subtitutes for English /T/ and /D/
    ... > sound too different. ... We foreigners don't substitute, we approximate. ... dialects. ... Fortunately, I am not a teacher, and personally have no trouble ...
    (sci.lang)
Loading