Re: Subtitutes for English /T/ and /D/


"Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote...
Harlan Messinger <hmessinger.removet...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Jul 17, 8:20 am, Seán O'Leathlóbhair <jwlaw...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Speakers of a dialect which uses [T D] usually notice when they >> hear
>> the [f v] variety.

> Only because the (almost inaudible) distinction is fetishized in
> Britain. Most people do not (almost, _cannot_) hear the difference.

Not so. It leaped right out at me when Jamie Oliver opened his mouth
when I first watched The Naked Chef.

You're not exactly linguistically unsophisticated.

Seems to me there must be a reason why Peter claims the difference between [T D] and [f v] is "almost inaudible" while others here (including me) find it quite obvious.

Perhaps it's dialectal thing. For example, in Britain (and Australia) T and D are dental fricatives, made with the tip of the tongue behind the upper front teeth, while many (most?) Americans use interdental fricatives, with the tip of the tongue protruding between the teeth. They don't sound quite the same, and ISTM that the latter sounds a little more like [f v].

I'm not convinced this is the exact explanation, but it's surely something of this sort, and certainly not some "fetishization" that some Americans seem to think we have -- perhaps they've watched too much My Fair Lady.

John.

.

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