Re: Vocatives

"DKleinecke" == DKleinecke <dkleinecke@xxxxxxxxx> writes:

DKleinecke> English does not have a vocative case. Apparently
DKleinecke> Common Indo-European did and most people know it
DKleinecke> survived into Classical Latin. (Et tu, Brute). The
DKleinecke> unnatural English "O" deserves nothing but the
DKleinecke> ridicule it gets.

I don't find it "unnatural". I just find it "unmodern".

Doesn't this use of "O" reflect how people speak in older versions of
English?


And how about the appearances of pronouns "thou", "thee", "thy",
"thine" in the Bible? Don't you find that "unnatural", too? These
pronouns have been lost in _modern_ English, just like the vocative.


DKleinecke> My question is: What does it feel like to speak a
DKleinecke> language with a vocative?

Learn such a language and feel it for yourself. How would you let a
born-blind person know how it feels like to have _colour_ vision?


DKleinecke> The problem comes up in translating. The specific
DKleinecke> example I was confronted with is from the Qur'an (that
DKleinecke> Arabic, at least, has a vocative - a prefix
DKleinecke> "ya:-"). In the course of a narrative Pharaoh speaks
DKleinecke> to Moses and starts out (in an unsatisfactory
DKleinecke> translation) "O Moses .. ".

I think the target language of this translation is not modern English,
but something closer to Middle English.


DKleinecke> The natural way to translate that would be "Pharaoh
DKleinecke> said to Moses "..."

No. You're changing _direct speech_ to _indirect speech_, which isn't
a good choice.

The natural way to translate it is: "Moses, ...".


DKleinecke> but this is less literal (and we already have enough
DKleinecke> trouble with Muslims who think the Qur'an cannot be
DKleinecke> translated).




DKleinecke> Is there any better way to imitate the feeling of a
DKleinecke> vocative in a language without one?

Just say that name. Add nothing. Don't change it to reported speech.
It's that simple. Less is more!


--
Lee Sau Dan 李守敦 ~{@nJX6X~}

E-mail: danlee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Home page: http://www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~danlee
.

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