Re: Are "semi-creoles" widespread?

On 1 sep, 08:57, Darkstar <darkstar...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Aug 31, 5:15 pm, António Marques <m...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

Darkstar wrote:
[...]

I don't know, my spanish isn't that good. In portuguese you >>might have
'controlo sobre os utilizadores', but that suffers from translationitis.

I was in some doubt, too. "Control de los usuarios" has 13.000 >returns
at Google...
"Control sobre los usuarios" has 68.000.

To me, it was important to establish whether
Catalan and Spanish could be translated into each other >>>on a word-per-
word basis.

Then you must realise that there is a continuum. Given any >>two
languages, some things can be translated on a word-per->>word basis.
Others can't. Depending on the languages, the amount of >>things that can
be translated that way will vary. For the romance family, and
journalistic usage, most texts can be done that way with a >>modest amount
of deviations. I think it was only last year I presented a short
moldovan news piece and an almost word-to-word >>portuguese translation.
But the end result, though intelligible, may be a far cry from >>what the
piece would be like if it were originally written in the target >>language.

You mean Moldovan sounded good in Portuguese when >translated word by
word or was it a far cry so you had to rewrite it?

What this means is that, in effect, you could pick any two >>romance
languages to make your point, but there is not much of a >>point to make.
The last clause discussed above is an example of how >>catalan and spanish
are just not isomorphic.

That's a good word. That's what I tried to show. As of now, I'm >not
sure they're not. I wish there were any fair-minded native >speakers
of Spanish here who could see and correct the translation.

I don't know if you consider me fair-minded, but I and a native
speaker of Spanish, and I will translate fairly; anyway, as Antonio
pointed, this is a legal text, and not representative of everydat
Catalonian:

From the Net:


"La Generalitat de Catalunya, en vista a la poca quantitat >d'aigua
embassada al sistema de Ter-Llobregat, ha decidit decretar >l'escenari
d'Alerta (Excepcionalitat I). Aquest escenari comporta la >reducci
dels usos de reg i hidroel ctrics i increment dels controls a >usuaris
i recomanacions d'estalvi. Aquestes actuacions es realitzen per >tal
d'evitar entrar en escenaris d'excepcionalitat II o fins i tot
d'emerg ncia, on caldria aplicar restriccions als abastaments."

Some accented vowels seem to have been lost, but it is easy to guess.

My translation:
"La Generalidad de Cataluña, en vista de la poca cantidad de agua
embalsada en el sistema Ter-Llobregat, ha decidido decretar el
escenario de alerta (Excepcionalidad I). Este escenario conlleva la
reducción de los usos de riego e hidroeléctricos y el aumento de los
controles a los usuarios y recomendaciones de ahorro. Estas
actuaciones se realizan para evitar entrar en escenarios de
excepcionalidad II o incluso de emergencia, en el que sería necesario
aplicar restricciones de abastecimiento."


Your translation:

What I got of it:


"La Generalidad de Catalunia, en vista de la poca cantidad de >agua
[embassada=abastada] al sistema de Ter-Llobregat, ha >decidido decretar
el escenario de Alerta (Excepcionalidad I). Este escenario >comporta la
reduccion del uso de [reg = luz?] e hidroelectricidad e >incremento del
control a usuarios y recomendaciones [d'estalvi >=establezidas?]. Estas
actuaciones se realizan para evitar entrar en escenarios de
excepcionalidad II [o fins i tot = en casos de?] de emergencia, >[on
caldria = cuando sea necesario?] aplicar restricciones al
abastamiento."

--
Javi

.

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