Re: Phonemes

On Sep 11, 12:27 am, Nathan Sanders <nsand...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
In article <1189448143.235866.108...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
"Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Sep 10, 12:08 pm, Nathan Sanders <nsand...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
In article <1189372268.678796.185...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
"Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

No, a phonological system is simply the inventory and array of
phonemes of a language.

Then that is usually covered in modern phonology under "distinctive
features". You can't determine which features are distinctive if you
aren't looking at the phonological system! For example, wether or not
[ATR] or [tense] is a necessary feature depends on whether the system
in question has a contrast between tense and lax vowels.

That sounds rather circular ... you determine the distinctive features
by looking at the inventory of phonemes -- but where did the inventory
of phonemes come from?

Minimal pairs. Jakobson, Fant, and Halle didn't seem to think
distinctive features were circular in 1952.

But we know that JFH knew how to discover the phonemes of a language.
There's no evidence that today's phonology students (with their
teachers' "everything BC is negligible" mindset) know how to do that.