Re: Some questions about Swedish language

On Oct 26, 12:05 am, Trond Engen <trond...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
A R:nen skreiv:

"Carnby" <linnetsNOS...@xxxxxxxxxx> writes:

I'm learning some Swedish to read some scientific books written in
that language. I found this clause: "USA torde för närvarande
härbärgera ung. hälften half världens judar, där de framför allt bo
i New York [...]". I have some problems withthe word "torde" and
with the verb "bo": why is it infinitive? Shouldn't it be "bor"?

(What's your problem with "torde", it's a normal (if a bit
antiquated) construction for marking slight uncertainty about what is
being told? [...])

Almost needless to say, it's used the same way in Norwegian. However, in
Norwegian the main meaning of the verb is "dare".

In Swedish, "töra" is not used in that way, but the deponent verb
"töras" is.


"Jeg torde ikke gå." = "I didn't dare to go."

The usage in the OP's example is due to semantic development, probably
from "challenge". "New York torde ..." ~ "New York should be a
challenger for the title as ...".

In the meaning "dare" it's also present in some dialects in an
originally reflexive form with -s. This seems to point at "challenge".
(Trondheim dial. "æ tørs" (-s = "oneself") = "I dare" <- "I challenge
(or bet, or risk) myself"?)

Hellquist says that the verb is of uncertain origin and with several of
its forms apparently contaminated with ON <þurfa> "need". Could it
actually be the same as Eng. <dare> -- with even the initial þ from
contamination?

Well, at least the deponent verb form "töras" is used in Swedish in
the meaning "to dare": töras, törs, tordes, torts (although I would
myself prefer the Low German import våga, and I feel very insecure
about actually using "tordes" and "torts"). Modern Icelandic has þora
= to dare and þurfa = to need, which are quite distinct.


[Bo] is not infinitive but rather present tense plural (but the form
is indeed identical with the infinitive with very few exceptions,
"äro" for "vara" is the only one I can come up with). I guess it's an
old text?

The plural forms were lost over the 20th century, their final major
institutional stronghold (newly enacted Swedish-language legislation
of Finland) was lost around 1970, in Sweden they were basically
extinct already in the 1950s.

They were lost in spoken language centuries ago, weren't they?

I don't know about centuries, but certainly they were extinct in all
mainstream dialects long before they were abolished in written
language. However, I seem to recall that Halland Swedish had even
personal endings - vi kommom - as late as in the twentieth century.

.

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