Re: b : m alternation in Thracian/Illyrian/Albanian
- From: Dušan Vukotic <dusan.vukotic@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 08:34:31 -0000
On Nov 7, 2:15 am, Abdullah Konushevci <akonushe...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Cybalist Abdullah wrote:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/50482
[... "in case of b/m alternation in Thracian, Illyrian and Albanian I
think
that we have to deal with dialectal characteristic, that has nothing
to do with anaptytic homorganic sound /b/."
What is nasalization if not epenthesis? General rules for all IE
languages are n=>m and b=>m sound changes, are they not? On what
grounds Abdullah is claiming that b=>m (bilabials) change is not
homorganic in so-called (confabulated) Illyrian (and therefore in
modern /compiled/ Albanian!!!).
Let me be more precise: the name of the river Tamish/Timish (Tibiscus,
Tibisis) was first nasalized (nasalization is one of the most
expressive characteristics of the Slavic languages; especially
Serbian) as TiMbiscus, TiMbisis; similar happened to rivers Timok
(TiMbok), Thames (ThaMbse); friquent Serbian toponyms: Toplice, Dubica/
Dumnica/Dubnica; Dubno/Duvno/Dumno.
I think, only a complete fool would not be able to comprehend that we
have to deal here with nothing else but the well known PIE root
*deubh- ('deep, hollow'; my Gon-Bel basis; Serbian dubok deep; dubina
deepness; German Tiefe; Serbian topiti/po-tapati/daviti soak, thaw,
suffocate; cf. Serbian tup /dumb/; dembel /lazybones, idler/).
Below is an explanation of the "origin" of an unusual Albanian <mb>
cluster
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.lang/browse_thread/thread/93596a18e61af66b/69397b4624543904?lnk=gst&q=mbledh#69397b4624543904
What an impertinence! Abdulah writes that DER is the Illyrain word
derived from the ancient *wodó:r. How? Simply, by apheresis!? What if
I
said the English 'chat' had been derived from the Serbian 'pri-chati'
(talk)? I only need to find my "WITHAL", which would admit that my
'discovery' MIGHT BE SIGNIFICANT.
The truth is that the great number of Albanian words has been
developed
trough aphaeresis. For instance, who would have ever thought that the
Albanian MBLEDH has been derived from the nasalized Italian gruppo
(Serbian grupa group, krupan big)? You would be able to grasp what
really happened to the Albanian word MBLEDH if you looked at the
other
Albanian word – GRUMBULLOJ with the same meaning as ‘mbledh’ (to
group, assemble).
I mentioned the Albanian word mbresë (impression, scar) and I did
expect that someone would notice that this word was a cognate of the
Latin ‘imprimo, imprimere, impressi’ (impress, Serbian obrezati,
porezati cut). The Latin ‘presso’ is equal to the Serbian
‘prezanje’ (preassure) and the named nasalized form of the Serbian
‘obrez - oMbrez’ (circumcision, cut; Latin ‘abrasio’) seem to
be the basis for the development of the Latin ‘impressi’ as well as
the Albanian ’mbresë’
There are other Albanian words that are derived directly from the
Serbian as ‘mpreh’ (whet, sharpen; Serbian ‘brusiti’) and
‘mbreh’ (harness, yoke, put by force; Serb. upregnuti, uprego
harness; nasalized Serb. uMprego => Alb. mbreh).
Sometimes, the Albanian words are deformed in such a way that no one
is
able to see where they are coming from. Who would ever say that the
Albanian ‘mbretëreshë’ (queen) was derived from the Italian
‘imperatrice’ (empress)? Albanian ‘shkrim’ means writing
(shkrimtar writer), from Latin scribo (Serb. škrabati; from
‘izgrebati’ scratch).
.
- References:
- b : m alternation in Thracian/Illyrian/Albanian
- From: Abdullah Konushevci
- Re: b : m alternation in Thracian/Illyrian/Albanian
- From: Dušan Vukotic
- b : m alternation in Thracian/Illyrian/Albanian
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