Re: Starostin's and Lubotsky's Proto-Illyrian confabulation: Melas Oros and Scarred Mountain

On Nov 27, 4:07 am, "Dušan Vukotic" <dusan.vuko...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
(s)ker-4, (s)kerǝ-, (s)krē-
_______________________
Illyr. TN Scordisci meant: “ men with shirts, kilts (like women)”
hence Alb. (*skodra) kodra “hill” actually meant: “(*short) low
mountain, low hill” [common drop of initial s- in Alb. sk > k] Lith.
skerdžiù , sker̃sti “(Schweine) schlachten”, Ltv. šḱ ę̄ ržu, šḱ
e”rst ‘split, aufschneiden”, Lith. skérdžiu, skérdėti “Risse
bekommen”, ablaut. skardūti ‘schroten”; skardùs ‘steil”, skar̃dis m.
‘steiles bank, border, shore” (see above Illyr. Scordus), skurdùs
“painful”, nuskur̃des
“zerlumpt”, E.Lith. skurstù, skur̃sti “lack leiden”; Ltv. skürdî t
‘split up, cut up, divide”,Lith. suskir̃dusios kójos “aufgesprungene
Fũße”, O.Pruss. scurdis “Bicke, Mũhleisen”, O.C.S. o-skrъdъ m. “tool
zum Behauen the Steine”, Russ. oskórd “big hatchet”, skorodá “harrow”,
Cz. oskrd “Mũhleisen, Spitzhammer”;nasal. Lith. skrándas “alter
Pelz”, skrañdis “Viehmagen”, Ltv. skrandas pl.. “rag, clout”, O.Pruss.
scrundos pl. ‘scissors”.
About sker-dh- see below esp. Schlagwort

Indo-European Language Association –http://dnghu.org/
Page 2708
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What an amazing scientific approach! G. Starostin and A. Lubotsky are
claiming that Albanian kodër (hill; possible corrupt Latin condo -
dere /to build , found; form, establish/) came from a certain
Albanian proto-word "skodra", but here they have a serious problem
to explain how it happened that Albanians are missing the hill-
linking-word because 'skodra' has no meaning in Albanian.
Albanian is having the word skuadër (squad; from V. Lat. exquadrare;
Italian squadra /battalion/), which is a clear-cut borrowing, and you
cannot explain a supposed native word by using trenchant loanword;
Albanian 'kodër' seems to be one of the rare inherited Albanian words
(if not borrowed from Latin condo -dere).

No, "skodra" does not have anything at all to do with Lat. exquadrare
and is not a borrowing of that at all.

If we now compare the names of the cities Scutari (Serbian Skadar;
Albanian Shkodar; also Lake Scutari/ Greek Σκουτάρι; cf. Üsküdar
suburb of Istanbul) and Kotor (Ita. Cattaro) we will clearly see G.
Starostin's "common drop of initial s-", just this time not in so-
called Shqip-Illyrian but in Roman, Greek and Slavic.

No, again.. (unless the Turks were using time machines).

Kotor is the
name related to above-mentioned Latin condo -dere

No, again.

as well as it is
related to Serbian kotar (district, an enclosed, fenced area); cf.
Serbian zidar (builder, mason), zatvor (prison), zagrada (enclosure),
zgrada (building, house);

You are attempting to link 'gard' derivatives with 'kotor'? Amazing.

Finally, I believe it becomes clear that all the above words are
coming out of the primeval word 'krug' (circle; Lat. circus, Greek
kirkos/krigos; from Hor-Gon ur-basis (Slavic zagrada => zagrad =>
zgarad => zgrada; cf. Skradin, a small town in Croatia

And (also) you are now attempting to link 'primeval krug' with
'kirkos' and also 'gard'??
Even more amazing.

also known in
Latin as Scardona). Now compare Skradin, Skardona, Skadar and Serbian
words zgrada (building) and kotar (enclosed area); obviously, Skadar
is earlier Serbo-Slavic Skradar, za-gra-dar (zgrada, zagrada, enclosed
area, castle);

'Gard' is one original root.. and has nothing (genetically) to do with
primary root 'kuta' which appears in the 'older' Baltic meaning
'enclosure'.

..the process of an omission of the sound 'r' from the
word Skradar is quite natural. Skradar or Zgradar was the basis for
the later Serbian words as zidar (zgradar => zidar (mason; cf. Zadar,
Lat. Iadera), one who builds the 'zgrada' (building, house).

In Serbian, the verbs izgraditi (to build, construct) and skratiti
(shorten) are logicaly interlaced and related via other Serbian verbs
as graditi (build), krojiti (tailor, cut; krojač tailor, sartor); also
in this case, as we can see, those verbs sprang from the ur-basis Hor-
Gon or the noun KRUG (kruženje /circling/, kretanje /moving/, okrug /
district/, utvrda /fortress/).

Nope. Never could have happened that way..
Not only have you erroneously chosen an imagined 'krug' as some sort
of primeval source.. but you have also made a total mish-mash of your
argument by making false assumptions using a variety of totally
unrelated words in a serial progression leading inexorably into total
fantasy.

Why not just throw a kitchen sink at Starostin and Lubotsky as well?
You've thrown every other junk example that you have thought of...

On the other side, Šar Planina (Lat. Scardus, Scordus, Scodrus
Mountain; here we can see the process of metatheses) is a Mottle
Mountain; from Serbian išarano (from is-harano; mottled, specked;
English scar; Lat. eschara), again from the Hor-Gon ur-basis (KRUG
circle);

Stop. No, again..
The Serbian 'išarano' is not from any Hor-Gone Basis.
In all probability it stems from a some Baltic-like root such as
'sarnot'; 'piesarnote' means 'littered' or 'mottled' in Latvian. No
Hor-Gone evident - just Baltic.

And the English 'scar' is preceeded by centuries in the form of the
Baltic Latv. 'skart' = 'to touch' 'to have had a lasting effect upon
something'.

..it means that Šar Planian or Scordus/Scodrus Mountain is a
Speckled Mountain and cannot have the meaning 'mountain' in any of
the IE languages. except in Albanian,

And Starostin and Lubotsky just proved you wrong..

where the word mal (mountain)
was borrowed from the Greek synthagm "melas oros" (by swaping the
Greek meaning 'black' for Albanian 'mountain'; cf. Serb. Crna Gora =
Greek. Malas Oros = Black Mountain) and "kodër" (hill) was probably
borrowed from S-codrus; i.e. from šaren (mottled) planiana (mountain);
Lat. Mons Scodrus (scarred, eschara, išarana/šarena, speckled; Scarred
Mountain)
DV

Dream on. This is the sort of mass mish-mash throwing that probably
makes your readers irritable.

For now the best explanation for 'skodra' remains
" hence Alb. (*skodra) kodra “hill” actually meant: “(*short) low
mountain, low hill” [common drop of initial s- in Alb. sk > k] Lith.
skerdžiù , sker̃sti “(Schweine) schlachten”, Ltv. šḱ ēd ržu..
Where it means 'bristling (mountain/hill)'.

PS: For any Albanian readers..
Is there any chance that the metal tin is found in the mountainous
area?

PPS: Dushan.. Can you guess the source of the name of the Serbian town
of 'Rujevac'?





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