Re: You say Slavonic and I say Slavic
- From: Emungo <pytisma@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 03:22:13 -0800 (PST)
On 11 Jan, 08:38, "Paul J Kriha" <paul.nospam.kr...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
"Emungo" <pyti...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:d3854932-956e-4836-b24c-5ac59686e2b1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On 10 Jan, 08:47, "Paul J Kriha" <paul.nospam.kr...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
"Emungo" <pyti...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
What are the different words in various Slav(on)ic languages to
distinguish between Slovakian, Slovenian and Slavonic?
What? Ugh.
You want ME to list these adjectives in ALL Slavic languages?
No, not at all. It was an enquiry addressed generally, inviting
anybody with knowledge of the specified area, and who could be
bothered, to list as much or as little of the material as they wished.
I'm very grateful for what you've given.
Sorry, I didn't mean to sound impetuous. My response was
meant to be jocular. To assemble names of Slavic nations,
languages, districts, dialects, or names of months and such,
requires intimate knowledge of each individual language.
There are numerous false friends and exceptions.
The above names are major nation/state/language groups,
but then you also have Slavonia (a district in E.Croatia), or
Slovácko (an area in E.Moravia, next to the Slovak border), etc.
God knows what, if anything, they are called in various Slavic
languages. :-)
Here you have the Russian and Czech masculine genders of
the adjectives Slovak(ian), Slovenian and Slavonic, in that order:
слoвацкий, словенский, славянский
slovenský, slovinský, slovanský
pjk
P.S. BTW, what looks like a crossover, isn't a mistake.
The two almost identically sounding words (to a native
English speaker that is) "словенский" and "slovenský" are
in fact false friends.
On the Czech side at least this confirms the uninformed impression I
had that the differences between these words are minimal, though
presumably quite sufficient for most purposes.
The Czech vowels e/i/a in the above three words, even while they
are in unstressed syllables, are never reduced. The vowels are
frequently reduced in languages like English and Russian, but
never (well, let's say hardly ever) in Czech. To a native Czech
speaker the differences between these three words isn't minimal.
The next question
(again not directed at you necessarily) would be how far back and in
what contexts these differences can be traced. Presumably the
slovenský/slovinský distinction in vocab was fixed more or less pari
passu with the development of Slovene linguistic/cultural identity in
the 18th/19th century?
The particular name "Slovene" may be quite recent (as you say
18/19th century) but both the linguistic and cultural Slovene identities
are significantly older. I'd say around a millennium or so till now.
Type Freising Manuscripts into Google and see about Slovene
texts written sometime between 972 and 1093, most likely before
1000. Wiki shows photos of it. It is amazingly readable document.
The language is easy. The script, Carolingian minuscule, is easily
readable, much more so than the later Blackletter/Gothic miniscule.
It looks almost modern. The later Gothic script was used in
Europe after 1150.
Is there perhaps recorded conscious erudite/
academic/literary/nationalist involvement in the fixing of
(all three or any two of) these adjectives?
Yes, quite so. Just like anything else to do with literary
language. The Czech Language Academy records
the literary language, grammar and spelling. It adjusts
the official descriptions every 25-50 years as the language
slowly evolves. In the ocean of different Czech and Slavic
dialects and related languages in close neighbourhoods
the population generally regards the Academy's efforts
as highly commendable and necessary. They tend not to
dictate changes the general literary society wouldn't agree
with. Often the older forms are allowed as alternatives for
another 25-50 years until the older usage dies out. Similar
official academies exist in other Sl. speaking countries
as well as other European Continental countries.
pjk- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Thanks for that. Interesting and useful. My only real knowledge on the
subject derives from an interest in the competing alternatives for
designating Slovene language/ cultural identity in the period
indicated, itself deriving from an interest in cultural/linguistic
identity in Istria, itself (and so on ad infinitum...)
.
- References:
- You say Slavonic and I say Slavic
- From: Peter T. Daniels
- Re: You say Slavonic and I say Slavic
- From: John Atkinson
- Re: You say Slavonic and I say Slavic
- From: Brian M. Scott
- Re: You say Slavonic and I say Slavic
- From: Peter T. Daniels
- Re: You say Slavonic and I say Slavic
- From: Paul J Kriha
- Re: You say Slavonic and I say Slavic
- From: Emungo
- Re: You say Slavonic and I say Slavic
- From: Paul J Kriha
- Re: You say Slavonic and I say Slavic
- From: Emungo
- Re: You say Slavonic and I say Slavic
- From: Paul J Kriha
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