Re: ``Ken and I being on the radio together''

On Jan 30, 6:10 am, Adam Funk <a24...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 2008-01-30, John Atkinson wrote:

[stuff about VERB+ing nouns vs adjectives]

Do you suppose that the meaning and use of one is opaque to (a) an
English-speaker

Probably not, though if you think there's any point in teaching any
"grammar" at all in school (personally, I express no opinion on the
matter), then it makes sense to point out this particular idiosyncracy,
which the student has almost certainly not been conscious of previously.

or (b) an ESL-learner who knows the other?

Almost certainly it _would_ be opaque to an ESL learner who has learned
the other function of "-ing", especially if his other language had no
similar constructions (i.e., no "verbal adjectives" or "verbal nouns"),
as is the case for a fair number of the world's languages.

Thanks.  (As I've already said, I agree with Peter as far as
synchronic description is concerned.)

I believe that teaching traditional composition skills (not as
absolutes, but as reference points) is good in two ways.  Of course
it's useful (for writing better essays, papers, job applications,
usenet posts, business reports, etc.), but it also has a humanist
value --- even (or perhaps especially) for those whose jobs don't
require much writing --- by improving their sense of self-expression
and encouraging them to read more and better, to think critically, and
to identify BS in its various forms when they see it.

And advocating the BS that English should be described in terms of
Latin categories is one of the forms that should be avoided.
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: why no struct inheritance?
    ... That's a perfectly reasonable matter of opinion. ... What complexity do you see in the feature of deriving from a struct? ... language should be able to learn a relatively simple ...
    (microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.csharp)
  • Re: "Dangerous Roads"
    ... >>> language to express it is immaterial. ... opinon doen't enter into the discussion. ... You object to his opinion and seem to think that this makes ... The cause of a collision is not a matter for opinion, ...
    (uk.rec.driving)
  • Re: Array of buttons... identify button on click
    ... But our company has over a million lines of code written using hungarian in ... language you don't speak. ... Anyway this is off topic and I guess it boils down to a matter of opinion ...
    (microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.compactframework)
  • Re: book - jQuery
    ... Of course it isn't a language, languages are only in my analogy. ... In other words, jQuery is 50K of junk code, not a ... Matter of taste, if you ask me. ... You obviously dislike js frameworks and you're unhappy about where is ...
    (comp.lang.javascript)
  • Perry Marshall DNA is language MP3 transcribed
    ... To have information you need matter, energy and will. ... ATCG letters of the DNA alphabet. ... What makes a language. ...
    (talk.origins)