Re: new book on the spread of IE

On Feb 21, 1:53 am, "John Atkinson" <johna...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Let's assume there was once a language which the linguists'
"Proto-Indo-European" is a pale approximation of(though, admittedly, not
everyone agrees that PIE isn't just a linguist's idealisation, and never
actually existed as a human language, which is maybe what you're getting
at (?)).

Then, like every other human language, it must have had a community of
speakers (at least two people). In recent times, the usual situation
among people not influenced by "civilisation" has been for each "tribe"
(numbering from a few hundred to some thousands) to be associated with
its own language. There's no reason to think this wasn't the case way
back then.

The problem of PIE is the lacking time depth, and a lot of
ambiguities, such as a missing definition of what sound laws
are. PIE rests on sound laws, and sound laws hold without
exceptions, or when there are exceptions there is a reason
for them that we can explain, but then again sound laws are
just observed regularities, not real laws like Kepler's laws
in astronomy, on the other hand linguists are experts on
language and should be able of coining proper terms, and
they go on using the term sound law, so they are laws ...
I had a long discussion on sound laws with Peter T. Daniels
in the thread "apes and language." Sound laws are laws
are no laws are laws are no laws are laws ... How can you
base PIE on such a shaky ground? The biggest problem,
in my opinion, is the lacking time depth of PIE, and so I
propose this solution:

Early PIE -- Ice Age language spoken in Eurasia,
from Northern Spain to Malta in Siberia, center in
the Franco-Cantabrian space

Middle PIE -- center Göbekli Tepe, begin of
agriculture at the base of the Karacadag some
10,000 years ago, first mining and melting of
copper in the Jordan valley and in Anatolia
at the same time

Late PIE -- spoken in the steppes between
Anatolia, rich in copper, and Central Asia,
rich in tin, giving way to IE with the casting
of bronze, with bridles and taming horses

Now let us have a look at Early PIE, which would have
reached its peak with Magdalenian. These were not
just tribes living in Eurasia, they were concentrated in
the Franco-Cantabrian space, and telling by the highly
evolved cave art, they formed a well organized early
society along the rivers, reflected in a common language.
Archaeology does have a say in paleo-linguistics.
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: proof that most etymologies are only fairy-tales
    ... Myths, legends, and folk etymologies have long been created to "explain" ... and my theory of language from 1974/75. ... I mined a Magdalenian vocabulary using my four laws. ... PIE homonyms *bher- in an easy and effortless manner. ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: new book on the spread of IE
    ... which PIE era he is talking about. ... The Ice Age language used words of one or ... no strict laws, in the sense of Kepler's laws, Peter T. ... PIE reconstructions are based on sometimes _hundreds_ of strictly ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Indo-Aryan Migration in <<Several Waves>>
    ... >> Anyone who can draw up a set of laws showing how Vedic could have ... >> contriving scenarios to place the PIE origin in India. ... It was not uncommon the first "out of India" arguments but since it was ... discern that the language talked about is PIE since it is artfully ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Indo-Aryan Migration in <<Several Waves>>
    ... >> Anyone who can draw up a set of laws showing how Vedic could have ... >> contriving scenarios to place the PIE origin in India. ... It was not uncommon the first "out of India" arguments but since it was ... discern that the language talked about is PIE since it is artfully ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: new book on the spread of IE
    ... plays a key role in these processes, language on every level. ... Either sound laws hold and are scientific laws and deserve ... of the physiological conditions of the vocal tract, ...
    (sci.lang)