Re: new book on the spread of IE

On Feb 28, 10:48 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Feb 28, 4:07 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Feb 28, 9:17 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Early Eurasian, 40 000 - 10 000 BP, fully evolved form
Magdalenian, 18 000 - 10 000 BP; Middle Eurasian or
Japhetic languages 10 000 - 6 000 BP, some persisted
longer, for example Etruscan; Late Eurasian or PIE
6 000 - 4 000 BP; followed by IE languages.
You failed to correlate those fantasy dates with the dates of cave
art.

Lion man from Vogelherd cave and other figurines,
for example the most elegant horse, ca. 36 000 BP,
as I recall, Chauvet 32 000 - 30 000 BP, Peche Merle
26 000 BP, Lascaux 18 000 BP, Göbekli Tepe 11 600
- 9500 BP.

Sorry, what do the dates of cave art have to do with your fantasy
dates above?

GT isn't cave art, so it has nothing to do with the question, and you
confirm that the latest cave art is more than 10,000 years earlier
than Common IE.

You don't even know the date of Etruscan??????

As I explained in a long series of messages quite some
time ago, Etruscan would originally have been a Japhetic
language spoken in the Armenian highland, then reaching
Northern Italy after the Trojan War. Etruscan, in my opinion,
is a surviving Middle Eurasian or Japhetic language, with
loans from other languages, of course.

As you well know, I do not look at your "long series of messages." Nor
is Etruscan the least relevant to IE.

It doesn't. It comes from accountancy.

Weren't the very first tokens in the shape of the goods
and animals they represented?

No, they were not. If you're going to parrot Schmandt-Besserat's
discredited claims about the origins of writing, at least learn what
she actually said about which actual objects she was discussing.
Tokens may well underlie numerals. They do not underlie writing.

Letters, in any case,
have their origin in drawings, Alpha from an ox, or rather,
in my opinion, from a bull or a cow, carrying the sun
in the bow of the horns, marking the sunrise, the whole
alphabet equalling the twentyfour hours of the day,
omega again sunrise, uppercase omega the sun rising
from the horizon, lowercase omega a rudimentary sun
between horns, resembling the upper part of the Egyptian
hieroglyph for east.

Bullshit. Alp, Bayt, etc., originate from hieroglyphs.

Since there are not 24 letters in "the whole alphabet" until Classical
Greek times, the whole metaphor is junk.

"Visual language" is a _metaphoric_ or _transferred_ use of the word
"language."

It is an actual language. And as for metaphors, you are
also one. 'Language' contains French langue 'tongue',
while 'linguistics' contains Italian lingua 'tongue'. Your
concern is writing, which is done with fingers, not with
the tongue. So you should use other words for your
profession and concern.

  French doight pronounced doa 'finger'
  Italian dito 'finger'

You are then a ditist, and your concern is doigtage
or simpler doatage. These are the metaphor free
terms for you. Pas de quoi. Always helpful.

Communicating by images is not "language."

Petey boy closes his eyes and the world is gone.
Grown up Peter says no and not, and visual language
goes away. But not really. It is still there for those
who got eyes to look and a mind to mind.

There is not the slightest shred of evidence that cultural change
"changes language," whatever that might mean.

So read Anthony, the book you recommend here in this

How could I "recommend" a book I have never seen? I announced its
existence.

thread, and his chapter on archaeology and linguistics.
Read also what he says about the naive and simplistic
views of linguists. He must have written that statement
bearing you in mind.

How can I "read" a book I have never seen?

Is it possible Anthony knows more about language than Renfrew does?
(It's not possible to know less, except perhaps for you.) But
Anthony's claims for the very, very early domestication of the horse
have not found favor among the world's horse specialists.

To justify your asinine claim that GT is unique.

www.seshat.ch/home/ouranos.JPG absolutely unique,
a sculpted limestone ring allowing one to see the god
of the sky, composed of air and light, ex negativo,
and his name was AAR RAA NOS, which became
Greek Ouranos and Sanskrit Varuna.

You have no idea what "his name was."

And you have no way of knowing that such an object did not exist in
every town of a similar size and age.

That can only be known when _every_ contemporary site has been
examined.

Learn about the use of the word unique. Unique means
not like any other thing we already know.

No, it means not like any other thing.

More practically, it can only be asserted when _many_ contemporary
sites have been examined.

We have the slightly younger Nevali Cori near Göbekli
Tepe, with similar stone sculptures, but some sculptures,
and especially the size of Göbekli Tepe are unique, at
least nineteen stone pillar temples, only a few excavated
so far, the biggtest pillar, unifinished, in a nearby quarry,
if freed from the rock, would weigh fifty tons, and this
for a time between 11 600 and 9 500 BP.

So you already know another nearby site with almost exactly the same
features.

Try reading for _comprehension_.

Try looking for _comprehension_:www.seshat.ch/home/ouranos.JPG
.

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