Re: new book on the spread of IE

On Mar 1, 3:10 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Feb 29, 7:07 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:



You were not talking about the first Greek alphabet. In the passage I
commented on that you snipped, you were talking about the first use of
alphabetic letters, a thousand years earlier than the first Greek
alphabet.

But you were dishonest and removed the passage I commented on.

We had this in an _earlier_ discussion, in another thread,
either from December or early January.

Maybe you had it with someone else. In a different newsgroup.

The first alphabet
had 24 letters that served also as numerals.

No, it did not. There is simply no alphabet in the entire history of
writing that fits those three criteria -- "first," 24 letters," and
"numerals." T. V. Gamkrelidze shows that any alphabet-based numeral
systems involve alphabets with multiples of 9 letters -- and the fact
that the Phoenician > Hebrew script is reduced from 27 to 22 letters
shows that the Canaanite script was _not_ used as numerals: if it had
been, when letters were disused, they would have been preserved solely
as numerals, as happened in Greek and, later, in Gothic.

But you are
right, it's not the very first Greek alphabet. The very first
Greek alphabet occurs on the Tiryns Disk and Elaia Disk,

I don't know what those are, nor their dates, but no source on Greek
epigraphy lists them as "the very first Greek alphabet." "The very
first Greek alphabet" (unless you mean abecedary?) is found in
graffito-like inscriptions on pottery praising pretty boys. (Obviously
they were not the very earliest initial uses of the adapted Phoneician
script for writing Greek. Those ephemera have not survived, nor would
they be expected to.)

in my opinion gold disks worn on the shoulders by

The value of your opinion is well known.

Eponymus Tiryns who came from Arcadia and once
was a worshipper of the Lycaion Zeus. Just recently
a Neolithic altar has been discovered on top of Mount
Lycaion, and a seal cut from a crystal, 5,000 years old,
before the arrival of the Greeks in the Argolis. Now
archaeologists assume that the god worshipped on top
of Mount Lycaion - from where you have a breath-taking
view over the Pennelopese - was later identified with
Zeus. This, I find, is another confirmation of Derk
Ohlenroth's deciphering of the Tiryns Disk. The
curios alphabetic writing on this disk and on the Elaia
Disk has for example six different 'A's. In my opinion,
it is a combination of word language with visual
language, as close as they can ever get. The Tiryns
Disk actually represents Tyrins, the rosette in the
center the Circular Building that once stood on top of
the hill of Tiryns, the base of the building a rosette of
giant blocks that are still in situ. The spiraling text
represents the way from the center to the wall,
and the banning formula along the margin of the disk
- so strong and full of archaic power that it baffled
our Jacques Guy millennia later - represents the
wall around Tiryns. At the same time the disk gives
an example of CO OC LOP as origin of PIE kwekwlos:
the supreme 'reasoner' Ss Ey R / Sseyr / Zeus in
the center (Zeus sanctuary in the Circular Building
of Tiryns) for CO, numerous guards along the wall for
OC, and the wall LOP. The sign of CO OC LOP is
also present, namely in the circle with a central dot
(co), with six dots along the circumference (oc),
and with the circumference itself (lop), phonetic
value of this sign in the very earliest alphabetic
writing from before 1650 BC an O. The same
sign can be seen as Argos Eye, emblem of the
watchful Mycenean town, and emblem of an
Argivian union (as explained before in a reply
to Trond Engen).

Ah. It turns out you were spewing more bull*** anyway.

You published your book The World's Writing Systems
in 1996. Derk Ohlenroth published his book Das Abaton
des Lykäischen Zeus und der Hain der Elaia also in 1996.
Klaus Schmidt began excavating Göbekli Tepe in 1995,
the main excavation began in 1996. Both Derk Ohlenroth
and Klaus Schmidt would require that you published an
addition to your book, if not even a second volume on
new perspectives about early writing. But you go the
opposite way: you just exclude every new inside.

It is not my decision whether to create a new edition.

What is not in the Book does not exist in the world,
or is not special (you on Göbekli Tepe), and you can
judge the book by Derk Ohlenroth without having much
as laid eyes on it. Psychologically understandable,
but not scientific. In the sciences we must live with
progress, the more so as we aim at progress: our
opinions won't last forever, they are sooner or later
revised, modified, or even overthrown. The important
thing is to keep an open mind and to go on working.

"Six different A's" is already nonsensical.
.

Loading