Re: AS gebúr; bauer; neighbour

On Mar 19, 6:50 am, Trond Engen <trond...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
lorad...@xxxxxx skreiv:
Nominative sing.feminine for 'sala'.
Same for 'salasa'.. although the related 'salashnas' is atypical
('as').

OK. No way to derive it as sala-sa or salas-a, then.

[...]
The neuter *sal(j)a- could possibly be derived from *sel- "take".

'To collect'... as I indicated. But as a 'collection/village'.

I prefer "taking" > "possession" > "dwelling", "dwellings" >
"village" and, perhaps, "possessions" > "collection".

'Gather' is the most I can offer.

[Moving up:]

PS: Upon looking more closely.. the Latv.'salasa' is a compound... It
is a construct; from the perfective 'sa' + 'lasiit' meaning 'to
gather together'.

That makes sense, and I should have guessed. The originally strong verb
'lese'

No. The original verb root is 'las'.

*las- is used for "gather (fruits etc.) (arch.); interpret
(signs); read". The multiple meanings may be due to a calque based on
Lat. <lect->.

???
No evidence of calqing is evidenced.
And certainly not from geographically remote Latin.

The weak verb 'lære' "teach" is possibly from a causative
*laisijan- or some such, in which case the calque is old.

???
Wrong.
It is from the same Baltic root; 'lasiit'.
Fruits are not being gathered here - letters are - to form meaning.
Latv. 'Lasit' (also) means 'to read'.. ie. 'reading' = 'teaching'

'Salašnas' above is a starightforward derivation with the ending -nas.
"Collectedness"?

A 'collection of leftovers' is the current understanding.
' *salasniiba' would be 'collectedness'.
As I said 'salašnas' is atypical and has a Lithuanian flavor to it...
so to speak.

This may not preclude any direct genetic relationship as regards
'germanic' or Slavic (sala/selo) related words.. but does reduce the
possiblity of the existence of any previous root having been common
to all three on independent tracks (*pie).

The Baltic and Germanic forms based on *sal- seem to be close
correspondences. Salasa is based on *las-, which also has a close
correspondence in Germanic.

That doesn't surprise me at all.. given geographic placement.

It would be nice to have Slavic <selo> fit into all this, and I
suppose it can be done, but I don't know how.

Well.. The most likely is Baltic 'sala'.. as indicated above..

Not just like that, anyway. Baltic 'sala' is quite likely due to the
Baltic replacement of neuters with secondary feminines, and the stem
vowel is wrong, so, at best, it's an independent formation from the
same verbal root. Or so it seems to me. More disturbing details.

Only disturbing if you adhere to that formulaic recepie.

Without regularity, there's nothing.

Oh, I know.. order/understanding makes working backwards much easier.
But I do not think that a sufficiently complete data base containing
all variables has been amassed in order to regularize patterns into
conversion laws as yet.

The data boundaries that *PIE have been constructed from are way too
small and unverified in order to confidently rely upon that construct
in forming extrapolations to be imposed upon reality. Not wishing to
be too critical, I would say that you too, are waxing a Mercedes that
doesn't yet have much under its hood...
You will have some limited successes within selected languages..and it
will look prettier.. but it still won't go very far.

Consider a small yet necessary corpus of data.. Latvian has over 253
dialects within its limited boundaries.
Has that data been incorporated into the *PIE data base? Now multiply
that missing requirement by all other IE languages (past and present)
and you should see that a body of knowledge necessary to make
confident inferences has not yet been amassed into discrete arrays.

Until such completeness has been achieved, small limited pieces of the
puzzle remain the most promising prizes..
Which is why I have been discussing 'sala' with you.

PPS: interesting happenstance: 'Upsala' means 'river island' or
'river town' in Baltic.. can I presume a meaning of 'high town' in
Old Swedish?

"Uptown" or "inland town", perhaps, if we accept the collective meaning
of the feminine plural. A more traditional explanation would be "the
upper (or upland) halls", with some ad-hoc fix added to account for the
feminine.

Not if 'sala' was a feminine gendered noun to begin with.
'Ostia' was feminine too, you know.

'Upp' is like its English cognate 'up', a directional adverb
with a literal, geographical meaning.

I see.. just like 'up a river'... or 'up (a river) town'.
.

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