Re: Minerva-paper on the Phaistos Disk : The main argument

On Jul 24, 12:07 am, "graph...@xxxxxxx" <graph...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
The main argument for suspecting the Phaistos Disk to be a hoax has
been summarized as follows :

The signs of the Phaistos Disk are a jumble of often
completely
unrelated objects, the sources of which date from Egyptian tomb
reliefs and
Anatolian objects of the mid-2nd millennium BC to 6th century BC
Attic
vases.

To what, I've already answered :
"a jumble of completely unrelated objects"?..
Not at all !.. ALL these objects are related to "Cycladic
Civilization", to "Greek Civilization" and to the "Peoples of the
Sea"
as represented on Egyptian monuments!.. Plus some "characters", like
"the ram" or "the feline head", etc. WHICH ARE UNIVERSAL...
And, as a general rule, the design of these can be found later in
Attic-Euboean vases.
To what one may add that the hieroglyphs, which are supposed to have
been "inspired by the Luwian Hieroglyphic script" are all dubious.
They also represent characters or objects belonging to the "Peoples of
the Sea Civilization".

So, the "main argument" of the Minerva-paper can receive another
interpretation than the Disk being an hoax : THE DISK BELONGS to the
PROTO-IONIAN CIVILIZATION evidenced by J. Faucounau.  A terrible
conclusion for the followers of the "Risch-Chadwick Theory" !!!!!

grapheus

The dismissal of the hypothesis that four Phaistos Disk's signs would
have been "inspired to Luigi Pernier" by Luwian
Hieroglyphs is important. So, I repeat here what I wrote in another
thread :

1)- S38 (rosette) : It is true that this sign can be found on Hittite
Seals from Boghazköi that L. Pernier could have seen. But it is
MAINLY
a motive VERY USUAL in the Minoan-Greek Civilization. It has been
found on Camares vases as on the Tempel on the Akropolis at Athens.
Saying that the "inspiration is Luwian" is NOT proved.
2)- S26 (horn) : It is also true that this sign (corresponding to
Hitt. surna) has bee found at Keratepe, Kargamis, Alep and even
Assur.
So it is "not impossible" that Luigi Pernier knew its existence. But
it is the design of an UNIVERSAL object. So much, that one can also
found it AS a HIEROGLYPH, in the Egyptian script... Nothing
surprising, therefore, to find it ALSO in the Phaistos Disk's script,
and NO NEED for the "inventor of this script to have followed a
model !!!!!
3)- S15 (pic-axe) : A SIMILAR , but NOT IDENTICAL, is attested ONLY
in the Karahöyük-Elbistan 10 Inscription. There seems NO POSSIBILITY
for L. Pernier to have known it, as this inscription has been
published for the first time in 1949 by GÜterbock (cf "Karahöyük
Hafrojati Raporu", Pl XLIX and ss).
But a STRICTLY
IDENTICAL object has been found at Kythnos in a CYCLADIC layer.
4)- S12 (rosette) : As far as I know, there is NO strictly identical
hieroglyph attested in a Luwian/Hittite inscription, that L. Pernier
could have known, and I challenge Dr Eisenberg to bring some contrary
proof.
But this "type of shield" has been used by GREEKS and by "Sea
Peoples".
CONCLUSION : The hypothesis that Pernier "WOULD have been inspired by
Luwian Hieroglyphs" is SURELY FALSE. Pernier was living in 1908, not
TODAY, when there have been LOTS of PUBLICATIONS about the Luwian
Hieroglyphic Scripts by Merrigi, Güterbock, Laroche, E. Masson,
etc. !!!

grapheus
.

Relevant Pages

  • Minerva-paper on the Phaistos Disk : The main argument
    ... To what one may add that the hieroglyphs, ... script, of which the earliest attestations' datation is about 1500BC ... have been "inspired to Luigi Pernier" by Luwian ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Ossetian sociolinguistics?
    ... Probably the redirect should be changed to point to "Hieroglyphic ... Erk. ... Luwian", which there probably isn't, no? ... Hieroglyphs". ...
    (sci.lang)
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