Re: The monumental stupidity of PIE theorists further illustrated

Paul J Kriha pravi:
>>
The "n" in "srna" (or "šrna") is not a velar nasal, it's a dental. Is
the "n" in "šrnka" a velar or is it a dental? Can you say the "r" in the
usual way (for instance as in "prst"), even when the "n" in -nk- is
distinctly pronounced as a velar nasal?

Oh yes, the "n" in Cz "srna" is also dental and the "n" in "srnka"
also sounds quite different, it's a velar nasal, I suppose.
The nasalization isn't phonemic in Czech so it doesn't get
much attention drawn to it in primary/secondary schools.

Same here, I became aware of such differences in nasals only after I started learning Sanskrt.



Re your second question, it seems that the "r"-trill in "srnka" is
not formed by the very tip of the tongue like "r" in "prst".
But the sound difference is only a minor one. The thing one
is likely to notice first is the difference in fundamental frequency.
When I say "prst" and "srnka" in the same declarative sentence,
the "r" in "srnka" tends to be about four or five semitones lower
then in the "r" in "prst".

However, when I say "trnka" (diminutive of sloe), the "r" is the
same as in "prst" (finger), while "r" in "krk" (throat) is like the
one in "srnka". It seems that the vocalization of "r" is more
influenced by leading consonants than following nasals.

If you can write 'while "r" in "krk" (throat) is like the
one in "srnka"', then I think you still pronounce "n" in "srnka" as a dental (or, as Dušan noticed, a retroflex nasal).

If I say "trnka", the "n" becomes separates from "k" and becomes a dental ("trn" = thorn). If must take care and pronounce both "n" and "k" in -nk- as velar sounds, and then "r" becomes similar to that what I pronounce in "šrnk", and that is miles away from the usual syllabic "r" (and I suppose that "srna", "prst", "krk", "drn", "trn", etc... are pronounced the same in Czech and Slovene). And in Sanskrit "śṛṅga" the "ś" should be a palatal fricative, not retroflex/postalveolar one, which makes it even worse.

It seems to me it looks close to a vowel of some sort (Ranjit's [i"] or maybe [@\] ?); but in reality it isn't a vowel, it is a trill with the tongue curled up to the top of the head (palatal trill?) followed by a velar nasal.



Frk: strč drn, trn, prst skrz krk srnky!
That's eight syllabic "r"s in an eight word sentence :-)

:) Up to now I knew only the phrase "strč prst skrz krk". Something about sticking(?) of a "finger through the throat" (of a deer?)... Can you translate the rest?

How about the longest word with syllabic "r", but without any other vowel? In Slovene: "čmrlj" (bumble-bee), "čvrst" (firm) :)
.

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