Re: proof that most etymologies are only fairy-tales

Harlan Messinger wrote:
Ekkehard Dengler wrote:
John Atkinson wrote:
Peter T. Daniels wrote:
On Aug 3, 9:26 pm, analys...@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Aug 3, 6:32 pm, Harlan Messinger wrote:
Dusan Vukotic wrote:
On Aug 3, 6:42 pm, Harlan Messinger
<hmessinger.removet...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Dusan Vukotic wrote:
Is there anyone who is able to explain the homonymy of English
bear (carry, cause to be born) and bear (omnivorous
animal/mammal)? Why and how has it happened?
Because there isn't any reason why it *wouldn't* happen, and
both words evolved in unsurprising ways to become, as it
happens, homonyms.
And how that "unsurprising way" looked like? Could you be more
specific? What bear (carry, cause to be born, bring forth) and
bear (animal) have in common?
Why don't you LOOK THEM UP and find out for yourself if you want
to know what they are? If you haven't bothered to look up the
details, then you have no basis for disputing them.
Maybe you believe it happened by chance?
Yes.
But
what if there is no accidental word-developing within the IE
vocabulary?
Who said anything about "accidental word-developing"? What does
that even mean?
In French, the words "ou" ("or"), "où" ("where"), "houx"
("holly"), "houe" ("hoe"), and "août" ("August") are all
homonyms, derived, respectively, from the non-homonymic words
Latin "aut", Latin "ubi", Old High German "hulis", Old High
German "houwâ", and Latin "Augustus".
thats very instructive. Thanks.

But of course I would use something like this to poke holes in the
standard PIE model.

I am sure there are no homonyms in any PIE reconstruction - since
the
Sheesh, you've never even opened a "dictionary of Indo-European
roots" and noticed all the homophonous ones????

neogrammarian principles would prevent two words that sound alike
in the parent language from evolving along dfferent paths in the
daughter languages.
Very true.

But nothing prevents them from having taken on different affixes,
surviving with different vowel grades, different accents, etc.
All of which seem to have occurred in the case of *bher-, which was
apparently four- or five-way homophonous in PIE:

*bher- [boil] > Latin fermentum, Greek porphu:ro:, Sanskrit bhurati

*bher- [brown] > English brown, Greek phru:nos, (with suffix, via
*bhruHnos); and Sanskrit babhru-, Gaulish beberu-, Latin fiber,
English beaver, Lithuanian bebrus, Russian bobr, Avestan bawra (with
reduplication, via *bhebhru-); and English bear, Lithuanian be:ras
(via bhe:ro-)

*bher- [carry] > Old Irish beirid, Latin fero:, English bear,
Albanian bie, Greek phero:, Armenian berem, Sanskrit bharati,
Tocharian p&r, Russian beru, Lithuanian beriu; and OCS breme, Greek
ferma, Sanskrit bharman (with suffix, via *bhermn-); and Latin
fors, English birth, Sankrit bhrti- (with suffix, via *bhrtis)

*bher- [cure] > Lithuanian burti, Albanian bar, Greek pharmakon

*bher- [strike, bore] > Latin ferio:, English bore, Greek pharao:,
Irish bern, Lithuanian bar(i)u, Russian borju, Armenian brem,
Persian burrad, Sanskrit brna:ti; and Old Irish bruid, latin
frustum, English bruise, Albanian bresh@r (with suffix, via
*bhreus-)

*bher- [weave] > Lithuanian burvam, Greek pharos (with suffix via
*bhrw-, bolt of cloth)

How does one decide that *bher-, *bher-, *bher-, *bher- and *bher-
are separate roots, though, other than on the basis of perceived
semantic plausibility?

You'd have to be able to observe *their* etymology. Sort of like the
situation with "rare".

Obviously, but you snipped the "supposing German were Proto-Indo-European"
bit. Reconstructed roots are hard to etymologise.

Regards,
Ekkehard


.

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