Re: observable language change - "off of" makes it to the NY Times
- From: Harlan Messinger <hmessinger.removethis@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 20:33:41 -0400
analyst41@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Aug 11, 5:42 pm, "benli...@xxxxxxxxxx" <benli...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:On Aug 12, 8:05 am, analys...@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Aug 11, 3:04 pm, Adam Funk <a24...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:Why not? You still haven't explained why it's "dumb".On 2008-08-10, Brian M. Scott wrote:Would you use it serious writing?On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 07:18:29 -0700 (PDT),I agree with you. There are plenty of other "compound prepositions"
<analys...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
<news:47020cff-57cc-4340-9bd7-2956455923af@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
in sci.lang:
start quote:Different category altogether. See, for instance,
Overnight, Russia landed ground troops off of warships
into the disputed territory of Abkhazia and broadened its
bombing campaign to the Georgian capital’s airport.
end quote.
Whats next - "I'm like" for "I said" ?
<http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/nonerrors.html> (search
for 'off of').
in English: "He came down from the top of the hill while we were
walking up to it."
Of course, "off of" doesn't seem to add any information in comparison
with "off", but I'm not convinced that's much of an objection to
adding just one syllable or two letters.
--
Bob just used 'canonical' in the canonical way. [Guy Steele]- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
You are obviously posturing (have you ever used it in serious
writing?) It is just slovenly speech and inexcusable writing.
It is perfectly normal speech, and as for "inexcusable"--are you in contention for the title of Usenet Drama Queen, 2008? Get a grip.
There cannot be a shadow of a doubt that the NY Times has started"bourgeoise"?? You really ought to check a dictionary, for both
using it to make its bourgeoise readers feel at home, who it thinks
spelling and meaning.
Sad.
What, that someone would expect the guy who's bitching about a perfectly ordinary English usage to use correct English himself?
would be put off by too strict an adherence to the rules of proper"down home"?? Try to avoid using terms like this that just make you
usage and therefore occasional "down home" expressions like this would
be a good marketing ploy.
look silly.
It is a scientific socio-linguistic observation - how a journalistic
product is changing to keep up with the linguistic changes (it thinks
is) going on among it target audience.
Has it *occurred* to you that nobody is keeping up with anybody, but that's how the author writes, because that's how people have been speaking and writing for 500 years?
Here is what the online dictionary says
"The" online dictionary? Obviously you've made your choice of source to venerate.
start quote:
Usage Note: The compound preposition off of is generally regarded as
informal and is best avoided in formal speech and writing: He stepped
off (not off of) the platform. Off is informal as well when used to
indicate a source: formal style requires I borrowed it from (not off)
my brother.
end quote.At any rate "off of" has a legitimate useThat's not "off of" anyway, so it's not a "use" of anything.
"In a war characterised by such atrocities as the hacking off of
civilians’ limbs and the widespread use of rape to"
Genuine "off of" is attested from the 15th century on.
Where?
King James Bible? Shakespeare? MIlton?
For crying out loud, do you think he made this up? From the OED:
?c1450 in G. Müller Aus mittelengl. Medizintexten (1929) 116 Take a sponfull of {th}e licour..of of {th}e fyir and sette it in good place tyl {th}at it be ny colde, soo as {th}ou mayst suffryn to holdyn {th}er-in {th}in hand. a1616 SHAKESPEARE Henry VI, Pt. 2 (1623) II. i. 98 A fall off of [1594 Falling off on] a Tree. 1667 A. MARVELL Corr. in Wks. (1875) II. 224 The Lords and we cannot yet get off of the difficultyes risen betwixt us. 1678 J. BUNYAN Pilgrim's Progress 49 About a furlong off of the Porters Lodge. 1712 R. STEELE Spectator No. 306 {page}6, I could not keep my Eyes off of her.
etc. Not just Shakespeare, but Pilgrim's Progress. Does it EVER occur to you, given the number of times you've been shown to be wrong here, to wonder IN ADVANCE whether maybe the other person is right?
While "where are you at" is equally inapporpriate, somehow it is cuteI'm sure you could regale us with a recital of your likes and dislikes
whereas "off of" is preternaturally annoying.
all day long. Some might find this cute, and some annoying. But unless
you can explain rationally what's wrong with "off of", take it to
a.u.e.
This is sad also.
It's sad to expect you to have a rational basis for your objection if you expect to elicit any sympathy for it?
.
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