Re: proof that most etymologies are only fairy-tales

(The problem with starting to answer you is that I feel like I have to read your posts. I only manage a few lines.)

Franz Gnaedinger skreiv:

On Aug 16, 5:51 pm, Harlan Messinger
<hmessinger.removet...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

(...)

The brown one and the wild one don't convince
me as etymologies of bear. You can't say anything
in defence of these etymologies, nor can anyone
else in here, nor did Mallory and Adams take it up
in their PIE bible, nor do they propose another
etymology.

There's nothing new or chocking in the fact that historical linguists differ in opinion on single words. Single etymologies are always under discussion. In papers and books linguists evaluate the suggestions of their peers as "convincing", "unsufficient", "worthless speculation" or "built on a non-existent law". Still, they all adhere to the same basic methodology and accept eachother as contributors to the progress of the science. You see, occasionally such discussion brings progress.

The question whether 'bear' belongs to the "brown" root is of little significance for the understanding of the development of Germanic. The sound laws are well known (except for a few details, like e.g. the fate of the cluster *gWh-). With several homonymic roots available the derivation of 'bear' is merely a question of semantics, and it's really no problem for declaring a word understood that several of them are plausible. However, it may be a problem for the reconstructions of the roots themselves if lumping of presumed derived forms press the roots into paradigms where they don't belong. This is well known and the base of much of the scientific discussion, and the answer is more work according to rigid methods of reconstruction until new patterns emerge. Or, if that fails, accept that the available data won't take you any longer.

All I see are offences.

All you get are characteristics of your "method". They may be harsh, and they tend to get harsher and more personal with time, since you don't take the message.

"Analyst" pointed out a shortcoming of PIE,

No. It's no shortcoming. If the derivation of 'bear' is uncertain, and I'm of that opinion, it's just one more among many in all subgroups. PIE is, above all, the reconstruction of a system of sounds and grammatical paradigms that are inherited into the daughter languages. It will never explain every word in every language. All its daughters are natural languages that have acquired bucketloads of loanwords, neologisms, substratum features and irregular developments along the way. There must be large numbers of inherited words that are impossible to attribute to PIE, because they are lost in too many branches for them to be recognized with certainty and their origins to be reconstructed. Still, as one can see, there's more than enough left of most branches for the overall system to be known.

And that's how far I got.

--
Trond Engen
- as if this would help at all
.

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