Re: Ossetian sociolinguistics?

On Aug 28, 7:47 pm, Darkstar <darkstar...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
John Atkinson wrote:
Darkstar wrote:
benli...@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Aug 27, 8:18 pm, Darkstar <darkstar...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
benli...@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:

OK. Let me try to get clear about what you're claiming. Your "very
important point" about bilingualism seems to be that bilingualism
*does not exist*. Now this sounds crazy, since I'm sure all of us
know at least some people who are as bilingual as you please. So
probably I've misunderstood you. Could you perhaps take the time
to explain just what you do mean? You say "You can't learn a
second language at all." (That's a quote.) Now this is obviously
untrue, contradicted by everyday experience. So I guess you mean
something different by that sentence from what most people would
understand it to mean. Please try to clarify.

Ross Clark

Balanced bilingualism does not exist or rather corresponds to the
state of negative stability -- it' s a ball rolling off the top of
the hill. Is this metaphor clear enough?

No. You seem to be saying that precisely equal competence in two
languages is impossible. A rather banal opinion made less interesting
by your a priori approach.

We've long the thread's thesis, so it no longer matters what we're
saying now. I was saying that you can't take bilingual situation for
granted, and should always run complex check to find out whether it
indeed exists and to which extent.

Of course!  If this is all you were saying, that many people who claim
to be able to speak a second language do it very badly, I'm quite sure
everyone here would have agreed with you right away.  But (up till now)
this is certainly *not* what you've been saying.

It's much simpler to rely on
monolinguals for any language studies, for all practical purposes.

Perhaps it would be "simpler".  Except that in the case of most
languages of the world (in particular, the vast majority of those that
haven't yet been studied adequately), it's difficult if not  impossible
to find any monolinguals.

Also, if you're dealing only with persons monolingual in the language
you want to study, how do you communicate with them to do your studies?
Via a bilingual interpreter?  By learning their language yourself?  Both
these would be unsatisfactory if, as you alleged, it's impossible for
anyone to be competent in more than one language.

That's why the urban legend of widespread "bilingualism" was created
for. If we bust this myth, that would immensly complicate all the
studies. First of all, "bilingualism" sounds to me like very natural
communication in both languages, including language acquistion in a
bilingual family,

That's EXACTLY what it means.

unlike just learning some Spanish in highschool, or
leaning some language before the age of 7 in one country than moving
to another and then forgetting it. The former kind of thing probably
does not exist en masse, or at least is considerably less common than
it is believed. There is lots of mythical, unverified bilingualism
around. And, sometimes bilingualism is just a nationalistic disguise
for word-by-word translation between two closely-related languages,
one of which even lacks a monolingual norm, so you can speak as you
please -- they'll get it anyway. That's mostly children's game, not
seriuos communication.

Your ignorance is immense and appalling. Go learn something before you
dare to post here again.

Speaking in broken tongues is of
course commonplace. In some cases, there are might be notable
exceptions

Well, that's a start!  Back a few, you were saying there were *no*
exceptions.  I guess you've got round to listening to that interview
with Sasha Aikhenvald that I pointed you to.  OK, it's not hard for me
to tell that her English isn't exactly the same as my native Australian
English, but it's anything but a "broken tongue".

I skimmed thru it, so what? Sometimes people do learn something. Not
everyone is completely stupid... But those are exceptions to the rule.
She's been living in in the west -- how long? oh okay whatever....
Besides, it's "mierda", not "merda" in Spanish, so either the article
was edited by an English speaker, or the author doesn't know anything
about Spanish.

IIRC, English is her
fourth or fifth language.  (Tariana would be about her fourteenth, but
of course I've no idea whether she speaks it like a native or not.)
Maybe, after listening to her, you could tell us just what aspects of
her English grammar are derived from those of her first, second, and
third languages?

Again! Who the hell can check up on her? If I claim speaking 14
languages, would you believe me? Okay, from now on I speak 14
languages... That'll be Burushaski, Piraha, Chuckchi, check me out

There's a slight difference: she's one of the best-known linguists in
the world, and you are an ignorant nobody. If she were as incompetent
as you seem to think for no reason whatsoever except prejudice, she
would not have the success and acclaim she has.
.

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